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1920 Beeman


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#16 jtrojek OFFLINE  

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Posted May 20, 2015 - 06:40 PM

Thanks very much, Doug! I greatly appreciate the amount of work you went to in order to help explain this step of unsticking the clutch. I'm sure your instructions and pictures will be a great help. I'm hoping to get at this thing Saturday morning. I'm very much looking forward to it. I'll take pictures as I go. Thanks again, and I'll keep you posted.

#17 traktrjorj OFFLINE  

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Posted May 31, 2015 - 09:06 PM

Nice looking old Beeman. Same year as mine. Doug is a great source of knowledge as he helped me with mine too. I took the crankcase plate off the bottom and actually stood mine on it's front for a few weeks while spraying PB blaster on the clutch,spring and shaft areas. Low and behold after a few weeks I turned the starting flywheel and everything was free. I got lucky and was happy with the results. Everything in mine was clean and actually never saw any rust holding the clutch just hadn't been used for 35 yrs and was in the engaged position. I still haven't gotten mine runnning but other things are priority right now. Good luck with your project.


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#18 jtrojek OFFLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2015 - 06:26 AM

I finally started working on this last night, on and off, while doing a few other things.  I started with the carb.  I removed it, and it's clear the tractor hasn't been run in a long time.  The carb was a bit of a bear to take apart, well, that and I've never taken one of these carbs apart before so it was all new to me.  Where is a good place to get parts for the carb?  It's a Kingston 4 ball carb.  I'd like new gaskets for it, and a new float if I could.  I have no idea if the old cork float is any good, but just looking at it, it doesn't inspire me with confidence.  Also, and this is something that I've always wondered, how much play is still okay in a throttle shaft?  This one is sloppy, but not the most sloppy I've ever had on a throttle shaft on a carb before.  I'm thinking it will run the way it is, but I'm hoping to be able to idle this engine nice and low when I get it back together.  I've just always wondered what the tolerances are for that kind of thing, and this one in particular.  Like I said, I'm fairly confident that it's tight enough to run, just wondering at what point it's just too sloppy and therefore affects performance.  I suppose the only way to really know is to try it out to see?



#19 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2015 - 07:56 AM

Check with some of the model T parts houses. That carb was used on Ts in the mid teens. Check out this site  https://www.modeltfo...rts/carburetor/   I think the gaskets you need are on page 3. I see a slug of float material further back. Maybe contact them with a pic of the carb and they will be able to help you. I've made the gaskets myself but the thin outer bowl gasket is tough. The float doesn't need to be whole to work. I've sealed the cork with gas tank sealer. Just try to not soak it too much as it adds weight. Just adjust accordingly. Not sure on the throttle. I've never seen one sloppy enough to worry about. The condition of the balls and the seats seem to be more of an issue.


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#20 jtrojek OFFLINE  

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Posted June 07, 2015 - 06:08 PM

A lot of the gaskets were pretty well gone in this carb, disintegrated to nothing, so it's difficult to know where there should be gaskets.  I've taken enough carbs apart to know where there should be some gaskets (plus it's often logical), but some things are different.  I see what's left of a gasket at the bottom of the float bowl where the main, big nut goes on, at the bottom of the float bowl, holding the two main body pieces together.  It seems to be made of a thin copper washer and some thread of some kind, wrapped around the shaft.  Should I remove all that and replace with a cork gasket?  I also know there should also be a gasket between the two main body pieces of the carb, the one you talked about, Doug.  I can indeed see that as being a pain to cut.  Also, what other gaskets should there be?  Should all of the caps holding the balls in have thin gaskets?  What about the cap that covers where the needle and seat are that shuts the fuel off when the bowl is full?  Are there any other gaskets I should know about?  I started cleaning the carb today.  What a mess.  Upon closer inspection and Doug's information, the float does indeed look like it will work, upon further examination.  I filled the bowl with water and it did rise as it should, so I'll give it a go. 



#21 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted June 07, 2015 - 08:23 PM

There were just the 2 on the bowl and there was a fiber ring under the needle valve cap. I think the caps for the balls were just bare. Maybe tapered slightly on the inner edge? I think this is the kit you need but not sure why they list it as a model L. The model L that the later Beemans used were more like the holley NH. The years are right. https://www.modeltfo...item/6200L.aspx

 

 I'm not sure what the sleeve is for in the pic but this is the picture of the kit.  

 

kingstoncarbgskts.jpg


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#22 jtrojek OFFLINE  

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Posted July 01, 2015 - 03:00 PM

Alright, so I've finally gotten back into the garage to work on the Beeman, amongst other things.  I've cleaned the points and now have a good spark.  Two questions for that: first, can I use a Champion D21 spark plug for that (I have a new one laying around that I'd like to use), and second, what should the gap on it be?  I know I have a good spark with that plug, but I just want to make sure it's alright to use in the Beeman and that it is gapped properly.  I assume it's alright as it's a pretty generic plug.  Maybe it's a little too hot though?  Would a D16 be better?

 

Also, what kind of motor oil should I use?  I'm assuming that SAE 30 is good, but the literature I have just says to use a "good grade medium weight oil, such as you would use in your automobile".  I'm guessing the SAE 30 Heavy Duty oil that I use in every other one of my garden tractors is fine.  By the way, that same piece of literature also says to drain the crank case over night after a good days work of 10 hours, and then strain that same oil through an 80 mesh cloth or wire strainer, place it back in the crank case, adding oil as needed.  Love that.

 

I called a few places about a carb kit, specialty shops like you suggested, Doug, but no one has this carb kit, apparently.  I'm going to try cutting my own gaskets and see how that goes.  I see that my carb still has what I assume are all the original gaskets: a cord of rope as a gasket between the float bowl and the main body, a thread and copper washer combination for the bottom of the bowl where the main nut goes on, and a pair of thin copper gaskets with something or other in between where the carb bolts onto the tractor.  Neat stuff, stuff that I haven't seen before.  I'm guessing they haven't used those gasket materials for many years, given that I haven't seen them on any of my other stuff.  Original materials, maybe?  I guess I'll use regular gasket materials and cork to cut my new gaskets.  We'll see how badly it leaks when I get it back together.  I dismantled the carb and ran it through my ultrasonic cleaner for a long time today, so I'll let it dry out and try to put it back together soon.  I'm thinking of keeping the cord gasket for the float bowl on there and just make a nice thin gasket to go on top, and maybe making something similar for the bottom nut for the bottom of the float bowl.  It seems like the stuff that is on there now is still in decent shape and is bridging a really big gap, one that I don't know if I could fill with the gasket material that I have here.  I may try it, and then if it leaks like crazy, do something different.  Not sure.  While I've rebuilt a number of carbs, I've never done one quite like this.  Another learning experience for me.  I'll definitely cut a new one going from the carb to the machine itself, replacing the old one completely.  The other two are a little less straightforward.

 

I'm also hoping that tomorrow I'll have time to inspect the clutch and everything to see what kind of lovely surprises I can find in there.  

 

Now that I'm on holidays, I should be able to spend a fair bit of time in the garage working on the Beeman, off and on, amongst fixing a few things on my house and building the kids a treehouse.  I'm sure I'll be posting many other questions over the course of that time.


Edited by jtrojek, July 01, 2015 - 03:13 PM.

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#23 Mike Unwin OFFLINE  

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Posted July 02, 2015 - 07:14 AM

Morning Jamie,

 About the oil over at the Stak there has been a lengthy discussion about using modern oils in older low speed engines , think they recommended non detergent oil. Myself I just buy # 30 detergent oil for the lawn tractors,air cooled s and hit and miss to cut back on costs.  Also a good discussion about antique 2 cycle engines they were recommending using motor with gas not modern 2 cycle oil as in your weed eaters. Cheers Mike maybe  a manual will turn up.


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#24 crittersf1 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 02, 2015 - 01:14 PM

What engine is on that thing?



#25 Rustysteele OFFLINE  

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Posted July 02, 2015 - 08:12 PM

I had a Beeman that I used to take to shows years ago, and if I let it sit with the clutch engaged, it would stick. I found that out the hard way by starting it up the second morning of a 2 day show and it took off on me! I found that if you unplug the spark plug, disengage the clutch, put a block of wood in front of the drive wheels, and crank it over, it would always pop loose for me, then it would be set for the rest of the day. Hope this works for you, I`m not a fan of totally taking something apart if I don`t need to, plus having a farm doesn`t give me the free time I`d like for these things.


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#26 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted July 03, 2015 - 12:08 AM

Jamie, usually the copper sandwich gaskts have asbestos in the center. Make a gasket for the flange to the block. Reuse the one on the bottom if possible. you can cheat the one for the bowl with a thin o ring if you can find the right diameter. If you clean the crankcase out, the 30 wt will work fine. If you aren't going ot clean the ccrankcase, I'd use non-detergent 30.


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#27 jtrojek OFFLINE  

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Posted July 07, 2015 - 10:11 AM

What engine is on that thing?

It's an engine of their own design, as far as I know.

 

Today I took off the bottom inspection cover to take a look inside.  While I have no real idea what I'm looking at, everything looked really good to me and my untrained eyes.  There was no oil left in it, but all of the moving parts still had an oily sheen on them with no rust visible anywhere, only nice, clean metal.  I couldn't see any broken bits or anything like that.  So, I cleaned the bit of sludge out of the bottom and am filling it up with 30 weight non-detergent oil. 

 

Today I'll hopefully get the carb back together and put on.  While it didn't have a fuel filter of any kind on it, I think I'll add one, even though I like the brass petcock on there.  It'd be better to have a glass fuel strainer on there, I think.

 

I guess once I get those things done, it'll be time to try to fire it up.  I'll have to look at the instructions on how to do that in the manual posted here in the Manuals section.

 

Then, if it does indeed run and no smoke comes out the rad (I won't run it any more than a few minutes without coolant, then I'll fill the rad up and try it again.  At that point, I'll also head down to Amish country (they're very nearby) to see if I can find someone to make a new leather belt for the rad fan.  I have the old one but it's broken.

 

Hopefully it rains soon like it's threatening to do because then I can go into the garage to work on this instead of being outside working on the porch, which also needs to be done.  



#28 crittersf1 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 07, 2015 - 10:21 AM

Single cylinder, water cooled?



#29 jtrojek OFFLINE  

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Posted July 07, 2015 - 10:52 AM

Single cylinder, water cooled?

Yes, sir.  It's a single cylinder engine of their own design, liquid cooled.  It has a 3 1/2" bore and a 4 1/2" stroke.  It runs between 230 and 1500 rpm, developing 4hp on the belt and 2hp at the drawbar.  The machine itself is 40" tall, 86" long (from the front of the engine to the end of the handles), about 17" wide, and weighs in at around 600lbs. 



#30 jtrojek OFFLINE  

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Posted July 08, 2015 - 07:08 AM

If all goes well today, I should have this back together and be able to try starting it. I cut my own gaskets for the carb and I'm definitely not going to win any awards for my gasket cutting abilities. Hopefully it doesn't leak too badly, but we'll see. Here are some pictures of the Kingston 4-ball carb and the Donaldson air cleaner.

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