Jump to content

Nominations for Tractor of the Month
Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
- - - - -

Need to replace cylinder rod on Case 444 3PH

3 ph case 444 3 point hitch cylinder repair hydraulic cylinder

  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

Utah Smitty

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5557
  • 1,643 Thanks
  • 1,746 posts
  • Location: Northern Utah

Posted May 09, 2015 - 11:31 PM

I sold my Dayton a couple weeks ago, and dragged my Case 444 out of hibernation... it started right up on 2 year old gas--Sea Foam does wondrous things!!

 

I changed out all the fluids, etc., then went to work to install a 3 point hitch I bought a few months ago.

 

The hitch was complete, but the rod on the lift cylinder was VERY badly pitted and rusty. 

 

Case 3PH CYL ROD.JPG

 

When I bought the hitch, the seller sent me a new cylinder rod with a threaded end... however, when I got the cylinder apart, I found that the rod was pressed into the piston, and the end peened over.

 

I got the rod off the cylinder, but now I'm trying to figure how to use the cylinder rod I have-- I know they're generally hardened so I don't think I can turn another end...

 

I also need to put in a new seal kit.  The piston and bottom plug just use a 1/4" O ring, but I'm not sure about the wiper and rod seal at the top of the cylinder. Are parts still available?

 

These pics show the 3 point hitch, less the lift arms and links, on the tractor.  The cylinder mounts on the left side... the bottom of the cylinder has a hole through it, and a plug above that.  It mounts to the 2 tabs you see at the very bottom.  The inside distance between the tabs is right at 3"--maybe a bit narrower.  The OD of cylinder is 2.75".

 

Case 3PH 1.jpg Case 3PH  2.jpg

 

The cylinder rod is 1" in diameter with a hole for a 1/2" pin.  It connects to the rocker behind the left hand upper lift arm.

 

I've looked for a replacement cylinder, but haven't found anything actually made for the Case hitch--the lift cylinder for the JD318/400/420 looks to be fairly close--can it be used?

 

Has anyone else found a cylinder that will work in that location other than the factory cylinder?

 

If anyone can give me some suggestions, I open for it.

 

Thanks in Advance

 

Utah Smitty


  • Thomasjent said thank you

#2 Bill 76 OFFLINE  

Bill 76
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 49625
  • 1,640 Thanks
  • 1,054 posts
  • Location: 5miles west of Milwaukee Wisconsin

Posted May 10, 2015 - 01:04 AM

If it's induction hardened forget trying to turn it down if it's just hard chromed it can be done-----google -turning down hydraulic shaft--then look at the

practical machinist forum they got a lot of info about turning down hydraulic shafts.

Hope this helps you some                           Bill  


  • Utah Smitty said thank you

#3 Dave Central NY OFFLINE  

Dave Central NY
  • Member
  • Member No: 27835
  • 106 Thanks
  • 92 posts
  • Location: Sherburne NY

Posted May 10, 2015 - 08:08 AM

I don't know all the dimensions of the cylinder you need, but try  Surplus Center.

 

https://www.surplusc...ulic-Cylinders/


  • Utah Smitty said thank you

#4 Alc ONLINE  

Alc

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1094
  • 5,450 Thanks
  • 6,618 posts
  • Location: Bangor Pa

Posted May 10, 2015 - 08:29 AM

Is the replacement rod the correct size other and the only problem being the piston ? If so maybe cut the old rod and remove the piston , I broke the piston on my PK cyl. And swapped a piston from another brand cyl that was the correct size grant it I got luck but it might be worth trying to repair the old cyl. Since you know it fits correctly
  • Utah Smitty and Genem have said thanks

#5 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

Utah Smitty

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5557
  • 1,643 Thanks
  • 1,746 posts
  • Location: Northern Utah

Posted May 10, 2015 - 06:23 PM

I don't know all the dimensions of the cylinder you need, but try  Surplus Center.

 

https://www.surplusc...ulic-Cylinders/

Thanks for the tip... I've checked out Surplus Center and several other hydraulics places.  Problem is the cylinder length.  The Case cylinder mounting holes are in the base of the cylinder itself, so it keeps OAL very short.

 

Smitty



#6 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

Utah Smitty

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5557
  • 1,643 Thanks
  • 1,746 posts
  • Location: Northern Utah

Posted May 10, 2015 - 06:25 PM

Is the replacement rod the correct size other and the only problem being the piston ? If so maybe cut the old rod and remove the piston , I broke the piston on my PK cyl. And swapped a piston from another brand cyl that was the correct size grant it I got luck but it might be worth trying to repair the old cyl. Since you know it fits correctly

I ground off the old rod on the piston end.  It is a slip fit with a peened over end.  I then drove the rod out of the piston.  Problem is, the rod diameter at the end is .810, and the threaded end of the new rod is 3/4-16 SAE... no way to tap the piston.

 

Smitty



#7 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

Utah Smitty

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5557
  • 1,643 Thanks
  • 1,746 posts
  • Location: Northern Utah

Posted May 10, 2015 - 06:52 PM

Thanks for the responses... here's some pictures to show what I'm dealing with. 

 

The cylinder barrel has a plug welded in on one end with seals and a wiper ring for the rod to go through:

 

CASE 3PH CYL  END 20150510_130444_220.jpg

 

The cylinder measures 2 3/4" OD and 2.500" ID.  The brackets on the tractor are approx. 1/8" wider than the cylinder for the bottom, and the 1" rod shaft at the top.

 

Case 3PH 1.jpg

 

The base plug has an O-ring and slides into the bottom of the piston.  It is held in place by the bottom pin, which goes through the sides of the cylinder.

 

CASE 3PH CYL BASE _20150510_130306_334.jpg CASE 3PH CYL  CYLINDER 20150510_130415_968.jpg

 

Here's the old rod with the piston partway in place... it normally butts up against the shoulder on the rod.

 

CASE 3PH CYL  PISTON 508_438.jpg

 

Here's the other end of the piston. I've ground off the peened-over part of the rod then drilled it out. After that a little persuasion with a brass punch and hammer pushed the rod off the piston.

 

CASE 3PH CYL  PISTON END 20150510_130616_051.jpg

 

Here's the new rod.  It is threaded 3/4"-16 for 1 inch on the end, then has 4 wrench flats, which are .812" across the flats. The rod is 1" OD x 12 1/2" OAL. Since the threaded part is smaller than the hole in the piston, I can't just thread the piston and screw the rod in.

 

The round portion is 11" in length, so there IS room to cut off the threaded end, turn down the rod and press it back into the piston.

 

I ran a file across the cut end of the new rod and it can be filed, so it isn't induction hardened, though it is hard chromed.

 

Can you turn hard-chromed cylinder rod very easily?? I imagine I need carbide inserts to do it.  It will be a little tricky to try and peen over the rod to ensure it stays snug on the piston.

 

AND, there's one other problem--

 

I cleaned up the open base of the cylinder to prevent the rust from scratching the piston when I pushed it out, but I didn't think to check the cross pin holes, which had burrs on it. The left scuff marks on the piston:

 

CASE 3PH CYL  PISTON SCRATCHES 20150510_130546_641.jpg

 

Also, when I drilled out the cylinder rod I held the piston in my drill press vise, cushioned in a shop rag.  I forgot that there is a "V" machined vertically into one of the vise jaws, and it left two marks on the piston.

 

CASE 3PH CYL  VISE MARK 20150510_130602_393.jpg

 

I ran a piece of hardened steel over the marks to smooth them out, but they're still there.  Do you think the piston will leak?

 

The piston is actually about .005" smaller in diameter than the cylinder, so it appears the O-ring does most of the sealing.

 

Anyway, thanks again for the responses so far... any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Smitty

Attached Thumbnails

  • CASE 3PH CYL  NEW ROD 20150510_130711_312.jpg


#8 Alc ONLINE  

Alc

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1094
  • 5,450 Thanks
  • 6,618 posts
  • Location: Bangor Pa

Posted May 10, 2015 - 08:19 PM

Could you get the new rod machined enough to seal inside the piston and use the 3/4 threads and nut to hold it on ?
  • Utah Smitty said thank you

#9 Alc ONLINE  

Alc

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1094
  • 5,450 Thanks
  • 6,618 posts
  • Location: Bangor Pa

Posted May 10, 2015 - 08:25 PM

Do a web search for " hydraulic cylinder piston parts " and you'll find co's that might have what you need without any mods to that new rod
  • Utah Smitty said thank you

#10 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

Utah Smitty

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5557
  • 1,643 Thanks
  • 1,746 posts
  • Location: Northern Utah

Posted May 10, 2015 - 10:04 PM

Could you get the new rod machined enough to seal inside the piston and use the 3/4 threads and nut to hold it on ?

I hadn't thought of that, but there isn't a lot of room for a nut on the back side of the piston--it would limit the stroke of the piston, and thus the range of motion for the lift arms...

 

Thanks for your suggestion,

 

Smitty



#11 Alc ONLINE  

Alc

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1094
  • 5,450 Thanks
  • 6,618 posts
  • Location: Bangor Pa

Posted May 11, 2015 - 05:21 AM

I guess if the only way to attach the rod to the piston is peening , it  looks like it's a steel piston and because I'm CHEEP lol  And the choice is modifying a aftermarket one to fit  I would get the rod machined for a press fit into the piston weld it together , file the little scratches from the vice and try it out , If it doesn't work , your only out the a little $$


  • Utah Smitty said thank you

#12 Alc ONLINE  

Alc

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1094
  • 5,450 Thanks
  • 6,618 posts
  • Location: Bangor Pa

Posted May 11, 2015 - 07:17 AM

Was just thinking , the way this cylinder goes together peening the end might be the only way because it might have to be partly assembled with the seal on the piston inside the barrel , too much heat might ruin it .    


  • Utah Smitty said thank you

#13 MNGB OFFLINE  

MNGB
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 62466
  • 1,000 Thanks
  • 829 posts
  • Location: Minnesota

Posted May 11, 2015 - 11:50 AM

Hi Utah Smitty, what are the over all dimensions of the cylinder? Length closed and extended and cylinder diameter, or stroke?


  • Utah Smitty said thank you

#14 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

Utah Smitty

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5557
  • 1,643 Thanks
  • 1,746 posts
  • Location: Northern Utah

Posted May 11, 2015 - 12:50 PM

Hi Utah Smitty, what are the over all dimensions of the cylinder? Length closed and extended and cylinder diameter, or stroke?

The OD of the cylinder is 2.75".  The ID is 2.500". Overall length--pin to pin is ~9.5" closed and ~ 13.5" extended.  Part of the problem is the mounting brackets won't let me use a larger OD cylinder.

 

A smaller diameter cylinder won't have the lifting force

 

Ex: Assuming 1,000 psi hydraulic pressure, the 2.5" bore cylinder (OEM) has a lifting force of 4,900 lbs. A 2.25" bore cylinder (hard to find) has a lifting force of just under 4,000 lbs, and a 2" bore cylinder has a lifting force just over 3,100 lbs, or more than a third less than stock.

 

If the closed length of the cylinder is more than OEM, then the range of motion of the lift arms are reduced.

 

It's a pretty unique cylinder, and so far I haven't found another one.  The center lift cylinder is the same bore and uses the same seals, but is only about 7" long when closed.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Smitty


  • KennyP said thank you

#15 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

Texas Deere and Horse

    RED Wild Hogs, Horses & Deeres

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1435
  • 14,464 Thanks
  • 15,392 posts
  • Location: East of San Antonio Texas

Posted May 11, 2015 - 02:19 PM

Can you put a 3/4" nut on the end of the rod and then turn them down to .810 press fit the piston. Peen it back into place after that.


  • Utah Smitty said thank you





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: 3 ph, case, 444, 3 point hitch, cylinder repair, hydraulic cylinder

Top