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Engine Won't Start After Running


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#1 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted April 18, 2015 - 07:20 AM

I have a Bolens Gardener with original B&S engine. I use Lead Additive in the fuel. After sitting for several days it will start on 3 or 4th pull. I warmed it up and put it to work pulling the plow for half an hour. Shut it off to till and plant more garden. Went to start it half hour later and it will not start. Squirted fuel in the plug hole, pulled it three times & nothing. Removed the plug and it is dry. I bet after letting it sit overnight it will start this morning as usual. It runs and pulls good and at just above idle so points, plug, carb setting is all good and have been replaced or rebuilt. The dry plug tells me it is getting fire to burn the fuel off the plug. My first though it a valve hanging up after it is stopped? Any idea on where to look first?

Should this be posted under the Two Wheeled section?

Edited by chieffan, April 18, 2015 - 07:21 AM.

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#2 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted April 18, 2015 - 08:30 AM

When it doesn't start, check for spark with a spark tester. 

 

The dry plug does not prove the presence of a spark, since the engine does not fire with fuel squirted into the plug hole.  ...There may be enough residual heat in the block to evaporate the fuel.

 

If a valve were hanging open, you should have "popping" out the exhaust or back through the carb.  ....If a valve were stuck in the open position, you should have no compression.

 

Your symptoms mimic the way in which some of the old "horseshoe" magnetos would fail, but a bad condenser is also a possibility.  .....Heat soak may be the culprit.


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#3 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted April 18, 2015 - 08:39 AM

When it doesn't start, check for spark with a spark tester. 
 
The dry plug does not prove the presence of a spark, since the engine does not fire with fuel squirted into the plug hole.  ...There may be enough residual heat in the block to evaporate the fuel.
 
If a valve were hanging open, you should have "popping" out the exhaust or back through the carb.  ....If a valve were stuck in the open position, you should have no compression.
 
Your symptoms mimic the way in which some of the old "horseshoe" magnetos would fail, but a bad condenser is also a possibility.  .....Heat soak may be the culprit.


The block had cooled down enough the lug was just warm in 75° sunshine but it still could be a no spark situation. No popping from exhaust and has good compression so you confirmed what I was thinking - had to ask anyway. Need to get an inline sprak tester. Timing light is a little hard to manage at times and pull the rope also.
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#4 stiemmy ONLINE  

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Posted April 18, 2015 - 09:19 AM

When it doesn't start, check for spark with a spark tester. 

 

The dry plug does not prove the presence of a spark, since the engine does not fire with fuel squirted into the plug hole.  ...There may be enough residual heat in the block to evaporate the fuel.

 

If a valve were hanging open, you should have "popping" out the exhaust or back through the carb.  ....If a valve were stuck in the open position, you should have no compression.

 

Your symptoms mimic the way in which some of the old "horseshoe" magnetos would fail, but a bad condenser is also a possibility.  .....Heat soak may be the culprit.

I totally agree!!!!


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#5 superaben OFFLINE  

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Posted April 18, 2015 - 10:41 PM

I'm with Bruce as usual.  :thumbs:

 

The Briggs B's I have messed with always needed a new condenser to run consistently, especially if it had a the diamond stamp on the condenser base. 

 

Ben W.


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#6 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2015 - 06:48 AM

We need a 'taking notes' smilie.

Good info guys, hope the engine is running soon for you.




Found one LOL
ecole004.gif
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#7 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2015 - 07:19 AM

Thanks MH81 taking notes smiley.  Been doing that all along.  This engine has had a full tune up and carb rebuild.  New fuel line and filter.  If I kill it pulling it will start right up on one pull.  I have a good spark tester ordered so will check that first when it gets here.  The condenser could have died too.   It is in the shed now and will stay there for several days as we just got 3/4" or rain yesterday and thicker than pea soup ( UG) this morning.  :wallbanging:


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#8 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2015 - 09:51 AM

  New fuel line and filter. .  :wallbanging:

 

This raises another question and possible problem!

 

The original set-up used a metal fuel line with a glass filter bowl.  ....Did you replace that with the same, or did you use fuel hose with an inline filter? 


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#9 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2015 - 03:02 PM

This raises another question and possible problem!

 

The original set-up used a metal fuel line with a glass filter bowl.  ....Did you replace that with the same, or did you use fuel hose with an inline filter? 

Now that you mention it I am not sure.  I was working on two tractors a Gardener and a David Bradley.  Started on the Gardener and while waiting for parts started on the Bradley, then back to the Gardener.  It was the Bradley that I put new fuel line and inline filter.  The Gardener retained the original bowl and metal line.  This is a photo of the unit after it was up and running and the metal can be seen.            Gardener-1.JPG

 

I don't think it is a problem of fuel not getting to the carb as it will run over fairly easily if the valve is left turned on and the tractor not running.  As long as it is running I have not noticed any fuel run over.  Gas is getting to the carb, and it won't start after fuel is squirted into the plug hole.  Almost has to be an ignition problem.  Guess I need to go back and check the points and replace the condenser again.  From past experience a bad condenser will burn up a set of points rather fast in a Briggs engine.


Edited by chieffan, April 19, 2015 - 06:03 PM.


#10 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2015 - 03:37 PM

The reason I asked about the fuel line is because sometimes people replace the fuel line with a hose that is too long, creating a "trap" in the fuel hose which causes problems.

Also, there are two types of inline filters, one for gravity flow, and one when a fuel pump is used.
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#11 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2015 - 06:05 PM

I get mine at NAPA.  they are the torpedo shape with the copper cone inside for the filter.  The packaging says it is for Lawnmowers so would guess it is for gravity flow as not many lawnmowers have fuel pumps.



#12 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted April 20, 2015 - 06:22 PM

I knew it !!  Went down to the garden to cover some plants - talking chance of frost this evening.  Stopped at the machine shed where I pulled the gardener the other day.  Wrapped the rope, turned the gas on, closed the choke, gave it a pull - - nothing.  Opened the choke, wrapped the rope and gave it another pull - - - it fired and ran.  Had to play with the choke till it warmed up a little.  After that it sat there and ran a  just above idle for a couple min.  Turned the gas off and shorted the plug out to kill it.  No why in tarnation don't it start like that after it has ran for 1/2 hour or more ? ? ? ?  What is it not getting when it is hot that it is getting when it is cold ? ? ?



#13 massey driver ONLINE  

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Posted April 20, 2015 - 07:06 PM

Sounds like condensor or coil.


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#14 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted April 21, 2015 - 07:49 AM

Condenser was new with the points and don't have an hour on them but don't really mean anything. I have a good spark check on the way and will put that on next time it wants to be stubborn.
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#15 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted April 24, 2015 - 08:14 PM

I decided that it was a good time to finish plowing the garden yesterday afternoon.  Went to the Machine shed and turned the Gardener toward the door and 2 pulls with the rope and it fired and ran.  Warmed it up good and headed to the garden.  Run it a just above idle and plowed the rest of the garden and it didn't miss a lick.  Pulled real good, I had wheel slippage on both wheels most of the time.  Not a lot but enough you knew it was there.  About 45 min later I was done, the gardener was back in the shed and plow was greased good.  Can finish cleaning up the plow and get it painted, along with the tractor itself.  Won't need it again till the crops are high enough I need the clearance over the tractor.  Still don't know why it won't start when it has been run a while and allowed to sit for period of time.  If it was ignition wouldn't it show up while it was pulling hard ? ?






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