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Well This Doesn,t Work

engine swap walker

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#1 Mike Unwin OFFLINE  

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Posted March 09, 2015 - 08:22 PM

So last fall I picked up another Empire 3 hp walker at a auction over a long long winter I got a idea since I had 2 3 hp Empires why not try something different ? So I started out great a friend gave me a Wisconsin THD engine for free was not sure what to do with it but thought it would come in handy or some one else could use it . Empire made three walkers a 1.5 hp, a 3 hp and the largest one a 6 hp , after looking at the pictures I thought if I removed the current Briggs Model B 3 hp and replace it with a Briggs Model ZZ and changed the wheels from 16 inch to the larger 7.50 x 18 I could have a Model C Empire. So far so good I thought.

 

I swapped the Wisconsin engine for a pair of 7.50 x 18" wheels and painted them green in the basement mostly to stave off cabin fever and then bought a 6 hp Briggs .While it was not a exact match the 1937 Briggs Z with a nice brass tag was close.So now I get the measuring tape out .... the Z bolt pattern is longer and wider then the B . So there I am done like dinner. I now assume the factory cast up a larger framed tractor which looks the same in the pictures to the 3 hp unit. I did learn the inventors name it is Farthing like the British coin . So at least I know what doesn,t work back to the drawing board. Cheers Mike

Attached Thumbnails

  • Empire 3 HP.jpg
  • Empire frame & sump.jpg
  • Briggs Z.jpg

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#2 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted March 09, 2015 - 08:28 PM

Is that piece the oil sump or is it just a mount point?
If just a mount point, would it be possible to tastefully make an adapter plate?
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#3 Mike Unwin OFFLINE  

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Posted March 09, 2015 - 08:33 PM

They cast the engine sump right into the frame , since I have never seen a 6 hp apart I guess they created 2 frames. Otherwise how could a larger engine fit ? Integral sump a little different , not much room around the edge to drill 4 more holes . Maybe the the ZZ was a smaller block but I doubt it. Cheers Mike


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#4 Gtractor ONLINE  

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Posted March 09, 2015 - 08:57 PM

Awesome kewell tractor....

 

but

 

um

 

You need a galvanized wash tub.......  :(


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#5 crittersf1 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 09, 2015 - 09:36 PM

Awesome kewell tractor....

 

but

 

um

 

You need a galvanized wash tub.......  :(

They always made a good hood.


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#6 JBRamsey OFFLINE  

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Posted March 09, 2015 - 09:55 PM

What if you had an adapter milled? Do you remember the carburetor adapters for small blocks to run Holleys on Quadrajet intakes? Something like that. Bolt it to the machine and have studs coming out of the plate to bolt your engine in place. Make some gaskets, bolt it down and add extra oil. Might work.

Make a pattern from heavy paper and you should be able to tell if it's doable. It will mostly depend on how close the mounting holes for the Z are to the B.

I wouldn't give up just yet.

Good luck.
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#7 Nato77 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 09, 2015 - 10:26 PM

An adapter plate won't work to change the bolt pattern. The crank measures the same from the top of the sump to the center of the crank on a B and ZZ. It almost looks like in the one pic there is a casting boss so it could be drilled to fit a ZZ. There's a inch difference in the bolt pattern but I don't know if you have enough clearance for the oil slinger on the rod to clear. I'll bet they used the same casting with holes in a different spot for the ZZ.
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#8 Mike Unwin OFFLINE  

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Posted March 10, 2015 - 08:12 AM

I really don,t know a lot about the Briggs line up but have found while the Z , ZZ and the B both had one inch diameter cranks they came in two lengths .The Empire need the long crank because the coupler is so short. Don,t think a adapter plate will work because then the crank would be too high. That is the thing about engine swaps what looks like a piece of cake is not always so. O well leave the tractor alone and sell it and the spare parts come spring. Thanks for the suggestions. Cheers Mike

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  • front of Empire.jpg


#9 Gtractor ONLINE  

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Posted March 10, 2015 - 02:13 PM

Make an adaptor that sits the engine higher than the tranny shaft then belt or chain drive the power from the engine down to the tranny.

With the larger tires, having the engine sitting a little higher wouldn't be bad and if its all a bolt-on conversion the tractor can be put back to stock once you round up the correct engine. 


Edited by Gtractor, March 10, 2015 - 02:13 PM.

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#10 Mike Unwin OFFLINE  

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Posted March 10, 2015 - 03:06 PM

Unless the drive is inline there would be support issues for the input shaft on transmission, I will leave it original it is better that way anyhow. Thanks Mike


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#11 Gtractor ONLINE  

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Posted March 10, 2015 - 06:01 PM

Chain doesn't take side loads to operate like "V" belts



#12 Tbrooks OFFLINE  

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Posted March 10, 2015 - 08:10 PM

Unless the drive is inline there would be support issues for the input shaft on transmission, I will leave it original it is better that way anyhow. Thanks Mike

I agree with you Mike, I would leave it original. You have a good start on tearing it down for restoration. Maybe you will find the 6 hp one at another auction, or along a fence row. The hunt can be half the fun. Keep us posted on the progress of this one.





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