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Hypothetical Hydraulic help.


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#16 ol' stonebreaker ONLINE  

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Posted February 28, 2015 - 11:14 PM

  Shorten the frame(if you get it too short there might be u-joint problems in your future), build a flat bed and mount gin poles anchored at the front of the bed w/ a 2k lb 12v winch. Then mount a small boat winch at the center of the bed so when you have to travel w/ a heavy load you can pull it to the back of the bed or set it on the bed so it can't swing off to either side and maybe tip the rig over. Probably should remove the front bumper and build a box to add counterweight to and some strong up rights off it to anchor pole support cables/chains. Or you could mount another winch on one upright w/ the cable going thru a snatch block where the poles join going to the other upright so pole angle is easily adjusted. If you go w/ this option then the boat winch wouldn't be needed as you can boom up enough to set the load on the bed to travel. No hydraulics needed!! 

                                 Mike


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#17 UncleWillie ONLINE  

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Posted February 28, 2015 - 11:28 PM

I dont have track how money! Around here about anything worth having with a front end loader is $6-9k or more. I dont want a crane because of the length of a boom and height problems. I want something low to the ground that will lift 5 to 8 feet off the ground. A forklift type boom would be handy, but they have limited reach outward. I have operated many types of equipment so I know about stability problems. Whatever I come up with will have a low center of gravity.

Cvans an s10 irsimilar was what I was thinking of using.

#18 JD DANNELS OFFLINE  

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Posted March 01, 2015 - 12:15 AM

i know exactly what you need. 30 yrs ago when I worked in the factory. We had a Hyster winch used for loading grinder mixers on trucks and railroad cars. This thing was about the length of a small pickup. Had a boom that lifted hydralically and a winch for cable lift.
probably had a two ton dual axle out front and steering in the rear. powered by a flathead mopar 6. heck of a machine.
I would not mind having one though I probably would have little use for it.

#19 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted March 01, 2015 - 12:18 AM

Willy I will see if I can locate the article. Should be in the porcelain library. :smilewink:  



#20 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted March 01, 2015 - 12:22 AM

Do you get the Farm Show and Review? It's on the front cover of the garden tractor issue.

If not I will e-mail it to you because it is copy righted;

The guy uses this one in cemeteries to set monuments. 


Edited by Cvans, March 01, 2015 - 12:26 AM.


#21 UncleWillie ONLINE  

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Posted March 01, 2015 - 12:28 AM

No I don't get that fine publication. Heath eats all my magazines any way.

#22 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted March 01, 2015 - 01:32 AM

Willie, what is the use you're intending this for? If lifting engines out of cars and the like, how about a boom off the Front ?
Suppose you could go block and winch or hydraulic then... Whatever is cheaper and works right. If out front, easier to see what you're doing and counterweight box is already there. 4wd would be a must.
On something like, that, you might want to limit suspension travel left to right, that will help on the tipping. Also, no sharp turns with the load.
I know this is disjointed, just typing out loud.

No I don't get that fine publication. Heath eats all my magazines any way.

At least he is getting fiber

#23 TUDOR OFFLINE  

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Posted March 01, 2015 - 05:29 AM

The hydraulics end of this project is easy. A lawn mower engine can run a power steering pump well enough to lift 1500 lb to a 10' elevation with the right size cylinder, albeit a bit slower than you might want.

 

Making a boom strong enough for that lift and reach is only slightly more problematic.

 

Creating a stable platform for that kind of load while travelling is a whole other can of worms. A suspension system is definitely not required  . . . or wanted. Tractors with FEL's have no suspension that will allow the swing and sway of a suspended load to cause them to lean and probably tip over, and all cranes and hoists have stabilizers specifically to overcome any tilting that does try to occur while the load is swinging.

 

Ballasting to accommodate that level of performance is critical, but not overly difficult given the size of your suggested platform. Load on the axle or spindles is going to be well in excess of rated capacity for the end of the truck supporting the load.

 

My FEL equipped GT is capable of lifting 1500 lb from ground level at the arm ends to a height of 6'. Transporting that kind of load is an iffy proposition at best.

 

As you may have realized by now, transporting the load safely is the major problem, not lifting it.


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#24 jacobd OFFLINE  

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Posted March 02, 2015 - 07:45 PM

What kind of things do you actually want to use this lift for? That's one of the most important things that will affect the design. Just to throw some ideas out,

 

Skid steers are strong and maneuverable but they tear up the ground, are expensive, and it's unsafe to be climbing in and out under a raised load.

 

Forklifts are very strong, quite maneuverable, and can be had cheap from craigslist and scrap yards. The major downside is with few exceptions they're all but useless off road.

 

Farm tractors with front end loaders aren't a great option for a dedicated loader imo. Loaders were put on tractors as an afterthought and the design suffers for it. It is of course possible to create an effective tractor loader but they are usually more money than they're really worth and in any case they are not very nimble.

 

The crane in the back of a truck idea is good but I don't like messing with cables or wenches and building/finding a suitable boom would be no small job.

 

What I would do is find an old forklift mast and figure out a way to mount it to the back of a 3/4 or 1 ton truck. Preferably with a dually axle, to help reduce ground pressure, and as close to the back axle as you can. I wouldn't try to shorten the frame in the middle. Not only is that a ton of extra work but it will also reduce the leverage of your counterweight (the cab and engine) and make the front of the truck harder to steer with a load. I would also try to figure a way to fix the rear axle solid to the frame. And bear in mind the limiting factor with this setup will probably be the axle and wheel bearings themselves, assuming the frame is reinforced adequately. Hence the use of a large dually axle.     


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#25 UncleWillie ONLINE  

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Posted March 02, 2015 - 07:48 PM

The major purpose will be lifting things that my back no longer wants to lift. The mobile crane I have is great except that you have to back up and twist around to see behind you to use it. With a bad back that is a no go. After a couple of hours of that I need a crane to get me back in the house.

What I need something that is...

 

       1   something low to the ground to lessen climbing on and off,

       2  capable of  go over most terrain without getting stuck

       3   able to lift about 1500 pounds max. (it will rarely be called on to lift that much but the extra capacity will come in handy)

      4  transportable on a small trailer behind a small truck

      5  easy to operate

      6 has a lifting mechanism that can be raised and lowered to get through different sized openings (doors, low trees, ect)

      7 Able to fit through a double door opening.

      8 can be built out of the junk I have now or can easily obtain.

 

 

I do have an electric hydraulic lift that is made to be pushed around on a concrete floor. I am not sure what its actual lifting capacity it but it is a start.

 

I have a ton of motors I can use if I don't use a small truck to build it from.

 

I have a 12 foot section of rail road track I may use for a frame.

 

I have 2 smaller lift cylinders from a little UTV dump bed that I can use  as well.


Edited by UncleWillie, March 02, 2015 - 07:58 PM.


#26 BTS ONLINE  

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Posted March 02, 2015 - 11:01 PM

FOUND IT :thumbs:

I was going to post this before I had even seen Cvans post :rolling:

Attached Thumbnails

  • Self Propelled Boom Loader.PNG
  • Self Propelled Boom Loader 2.PNG

Edited by BTS, March 02, 2015 - 11:06 PM.

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#27 Bmerf OFFLINE  

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Posted March 02, 2015 - 11:14 PM

That is neat! :thumbs:



#28 TUDOR OFFLINE  

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Posted March 03, 2015 - 04:30 AM

The major purpose will be lifting things that my back no longer wants to lift. The mobile crane I have is great except that you have to back up and twist around to see behind you to use it. With a bad back that is a no go. After a couple of hours of that I need a crane to get me back in the house.

What I need something that is...

 

       1   something low to the ground to lessen climbing on and off,

       2  capable of  go over most terrain without getting stuck

       3   able to lift about 1500 pounds max. (it will rarely be called on to lift that much but the extra capacity will come in handy)

      4  transportable on a small trailer behind a small truck

      5  easy to operate

      6 has a lifting mechanism that can be raised and lowered to get through different sized openings (doors, low trees, ect)

      7 Able to fit through a double door opening.

      8 can be built out of the junk I have now or can easily obtain.

 

 

Okay, you just described the capabilities of my GT and loader in the first 7 requirements. The 8th would depend on what class of 'junk' you have laying around.

 

For my GT to lift 1500 lb requires that it weigh over 2500 lb with operator and be 12.5' long. As mentioned previously, transporting a load of that magnitude is iffy and definitely not done with the load more than a few inches off the ground. Once stopped and on level ground, it can lift the load to its maximum reach of 6'.

 

For higher lifts, from 4.5' to 10', I substitute a home made T-bar platform for the bucket. I don't use that for lifting more than 400 lb from low to high due to stability issues from the 48" width at the rear tires, but I have lifted the outer edge of an attached 12'x29' carport roof while replacing the beam and supporting posts. The estimated weight was about 1200 lb. I ran out of lift height and had to add pieces of 2x4 under the beam to get it up the last inch. Since the tractor wasn't moving on the level concrete driveway and the roof was solidly anchored to the house wall, the lift was as stabile as could possibly be arranged. The bottom of the lifting device was stabilized so that it couldn't drop while I was installing the posts and the temporary supports for the roof were still attached to the roof.

 


Edited by TUDOR, March 03, 2015 - 04:32 AM.


#29 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted March 03, 2015 - 06:46 AM

That's pretty nice piece !   If the duel wheels are too wide maybe it could be made to have the outer ones removable easily for those times when it needs to get into tight places but don't need the extra capacity and stability .     Attached Thumbnails
  • post-11851-0-19241400-1425355286_thumb.p
  • post-11851-0-03211000-1425355316_thumb.p


#30 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted March 03, 2015 - 07:25 AM

FOUND IT :thumbs:

I was going to post this before I had even seen Cvans post :rolling:

That is just way cool! Sounds pretty close to what Uncle Willie is needing.

If I am reading your expectations right, you want this to be able to perform around your house. But small and nimble enough to haul somewhere to load out heavy things.






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