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212 Short while running. Help.


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#1 KenM OFFLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2015 - 06:58 PM

Ok.  Did some basic work on the 212 today.  Replaced spark plug, fuel line and shut off valve.  New battery and battery cables.  Upon starting it and running I noticed this.....

 

Hopefully this video works.

http://youtu.be/yGrNLh6tmrY

For some reason I cannot get it imbedded so gotta link to youtube.

 

Could this be the stator or points causing this?  I tested for short to ground with multi-meter while engine is off and key on.  But did not see any abnormal voltage anywhere I checked.


Edited by KenM, February 21, 2015 - 06:59 PM.


#2 gopher OFFLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2015 - 07:43 PM

Might be cracked coil. I've heard improper plug gap can cause arcing.


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#3 brownboystoys OFFLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2015 - 08:17 PM

Make sure  you have the engine grounded to the frame of the tractor. Since the engine is mounted in rubber it needs a ground from where battery cable attaches to head to battery box. The arching is the engine tring to find ground. Hope this helps.


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#4 Jlaws OFFLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2015 - 08:18 PM

Ok ...its hard to tell from the video , but looks like its arcing from the coil to the coil mounting bracket , which tell me that its a poor connection between the coils case and bracket . That's what will happen if the coils loose in the bracket .

The two terminals on top the coil are the 12 volt primary side of the coils windings , the plug wire is one side of the high voltage secondary windings , the other side is the coils case to ground . The coil has to be either loose in the bracket or dirt and rust is causing a bad connection..


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#5 KenM OFFLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2015 - 08:25 PM

Ok ...its hard to tell from the video , but looks like its arcing from the coil to the coil mounting bracket , which tell me that its a poor connection between the coils case and bracket . That's what will happen if the coils loose in the bracket .
The two terminals on top the coil are the 12 volt primary side of the coils windings , the plug wire is one side of the high voltage secondary windings , the other side is the coils case to ground . The coil has to be either loose in the bracket or dirt and rust is causing a bad connection..

Its shorting between the coil bracket and the battery tray. I recorded video with my phone sideways. So it looks weird on YouTube.

#6 KenM OFFLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2015 - 08:26 PM

Might be cracked coil. I've heard improper plug gap can cause arcing.


Brand new coil. Better not be cracked.
I have new points to put on as well. But waiting to figure this out before I put them on. Plus I thought of going with points saver. But again wanna figure this out first.

Edited by KenM, February 21, 2015 - 08:31 PM.


#7 KenM OFFLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2015 - 08:28 PM

Make sure you have the engine grounded to the frame of the tractor. Since the engine is mounted in rubber it needs a ground from where battery cable attaches to head to battery box. The arching is the engine tring to find ground. Hope this helps.

As far as I can tell there is no other grounding strap other than battery ground cable to battery. Is there suppose to be one?

#8 Jlaws OFFLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2015 - 08:58 PM

Well I'm not familiar with JD's but I believe if its mounted on rubber vibration isolators then brownboystoys is probably correct in that the engines lost ground and is searching for one . I know the cub QL's engine sits on rubber mounts and they have a ground cable that goes from the engine block to the frame to ground the engine .


Edited by Jlaws, February 21, 2015 - 09:02 PM.


#9 KenM OFFLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2015 - 09:08 PM

Make sure you have the engine grounded to the frame of the tractor. Since the engine is mounted in rubber it needs a ground from where battery cable attaches to head to battery box. The arching is the engine tring to find ground. Hope this helps.


Well I'm not familiar with JD's but I believe if its mounted on rubber vibration isolators then brownboystoys is probably correct in that the engines lost ground and is searching for one . I know the cub QL's engine sits on rubber mounts and they have a ground cable that goes from the engine block to the frame to ground the engine .

Ok. So should there be a ground cable from the battery to frame as well then to complete the loop? Or should the battery ground cable go to frame and then ground cable to head?

#10 lyall OFFLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2015 - 09:42 PM

ground cable from both the motor and frame to battery



#11 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted February 22, 2015 - 06:44 AM

On my Ford ( which is mounted on isolators), the battery is grounded to frame. Another ground wire goes from the engine to frame.

Looking at the video, looks to me like the coil is arcing to the mount. Can you rotate the coil in the mount right now? if so, tighten the mount around the coil so it can't rotate inside it.



#12 propane1 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 22, 2015 - 08:18 AM

Bad ground some where. Need to ground the engine. Does the starter sound and work ok ? Noel

#13 KenM OFFLINE  

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Posted February 22, 2015 - 09:58 AM

On my Ford ( which is mounted on isolators), the battery is grounded to frame. Another ground wire goes from the engine to frame.
Looking at the video, looks to me like the coil is arcing to the mount. Can you rotate the coil in the mount right now? if so, tighten the mount around the coil so it can't rotate inside it.

Its arcing between coil mount and battery tray. Video don't show very good.

I'll make new ground wire in a little while to connect engine to frame and see what happens.

#14 KC9KAS OFFLINE  

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Posted February 22, 2015 - 10:26 AM

Ground, ground, ground...There is your problem.



#15 KenM OFFLINE  

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Posted February 25, 2015 - 05:07 PM

Ok. I added new ground wire between engine and frame.  Replaced coil bracket with the one that originally came with the coil.  Replaced main wiring harness due to a few splices that I didn't like.  Mainly neutral start switch was bypassed and so was seat switch.  Someone cut wires and wire nutted them together.  So I replaced whole main wiring harness.  Added tail lights and wiring harness.  Along with new amp gauge and light switch.  Everything works like it should except for I am still having the spark issue and the amp gauge shows it discharging instead of charging.

 

I have a video showing the spark issue, ground wire and amp gauge.  I am holding a multimeter lead that is disconnected from the meter to show the spark better.

 

http://youtu.be/28u6SAVJoBQ

 

 

Any clue as to what is causing this?  I have new points and condenser but not installed yet.  Have points saver ordered and want this corrected before I receive it.  I plan on putting in the new points when I install the points saver.






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