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Adding a oil cooler to a hydrostatic GT


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#1 48willys OFFLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2015 - 10:08 AM

I would like to add an oil cooler to a cast iron hydrostatic cub cadet rear end with the ported pump,

(from a 149 to be exact). My question is, does anyone know if oil circulates through the lift remote at all times? I’m thinking that it does as some of the bigger cub models had power steering run off the ports.

In that case it stands to reason that adding an oil cooler will be as easy as running a line from the remote return, through the cooler and back into the return port on the pump. Should work, right?  

 

 


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#2 KC9KAS OFFLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2015 - 10:32 AM

I am not well versed on this machine, but I would think a cooler installed in any constant circulating line would work fine.


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#3 glgrumpy OFFLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2015 - 02:02 PM

Why a cooler?  They never designed one when new, why now?  Case always had one in front like a radiator, real simple. Has to be off a low pressure side. Hoses involved in case, not so much on a Cub. Don't know the answer, but not seeing a need either.



#4 48willys OFFLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2015 - 03:40 PM

Well this is going to be anything but stock, I’m putting a 25hp diesel to it. From prior research I found that these units are able to handle about 30hp so I'm pushing it as it is. But the biggest killer from what I can tell is going to be heat breaking down the fluid, so I’m thinking of adding a cooler to help the drive shaft fan.


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#5 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2015 - 03:57 PM

Now we know the rest of the story! I think a cooler would be good insurance!



#6 TUDOR OFFLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2015 - 05:15 PM

 

Well this is going to be anything but stock, I’m putting a 25hp diesel to it. From prior research I found that these units are able to handle about 30hp so I'm pushing it as it is. But the biggest killer from what I can tell is going to be heat breaking down the fluid, so I’m thinking of adding a cooler to help the drive shaft fan.

Not to worry.

 

The hydro may be able to handle 30 hp, but the rear tires will run out of traction at about 6 hp unless you have a huge amount of weight. My MF1655 carries a minimum of 400 lb of rear end ballast and I can add over 450 more and it will still spin the chained tires on dirt at 2/3 throttle with a 16 hp Onan. It hasn't even had the drive shaft fan for cooling since 1996.

 

About the only real benefit that higher horsepower has with a hydro is faster acceleration. It won't deliver any more torque to the rear axle than a smaller engine, but it will deliver more horsepower over a broader range such as climbing a slope while towing a heavy trailer.

 

Entry level LT's often have a Tuff Torq K46 hydro that is rated for 2.75 hp. They come with engines with as much as 20 hp and they run out of traction before they run out of even that small amount of hydro horsepower.

 

High horsepower is for the powered implements, not for the drive of GT's.

 

Cooling is required for sustained operations close to traction limits, such as ploughing a field with a triple 12" bottom plough. Considering that most other tasks won't run the hydro temperature over 140° and the high temperature rating is over 190°, I wouldn't get too concerned. The recommended temperature range is 140-160°.


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#7 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2015 - 09:14 PM

From my experience with diesel conversions and hydraulics, You can try it without but  but build the project to accommodate a cooler down the road if you need it. 



#8 48willys OFFLINE  

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Posted February 22, 2015 - 07:13 AM

I think that’s what I'm going to do; the radiator I'm looking at has a transmission cooler built into it so that might be a nice option.

 

From my experience with diesel conversions and hydraulics, You can try it without but  but build the project to accommodate a cooler down the road if you need it. 


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#9 TUDOR OFFLINE  

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Posted February 23, 2015 - 02:34 AM

I think that’s what I'm going to do; the radiator I'm looking at has a transmission cooler built into it so that might be a nice option.

That's the best option. The engine coolant will bring the fluid up to temperature a little quicker on the cold days, and maintain it in the correct range the rest of the time.


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#10 Tennblue59 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 26, 2015 - 10:20 AM

Addressing your original questions - I can't say for certain on the Cub, but USUALLY, yes - when not actuating the cylinder, the valve is in bypass and flows pressure to the low side return.

The schematic for the Deere 318 (early model) uses an oil cooler which is plumbed just like you describe - its in series in the return line after the control valves and power steering system, on the way back to the reservoir.

With stock engines, the cooler was evidently not required - the 316 onan did not have one, but the 318 did - basically similar systems minus a couple horsepower and power steering... But with the added hp you are talking about, it would be prudent...

My only concern would be if you are operating in really cold environments (I don't think it would be a major concern in Virginia, but farther north???) would be sluggish operation because the fluid is not getting up to operating temp and being overcooled. Then a thermostatically controlled bypass for the cooler might be used?
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#11 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted February 26, 2015 - 09:38 PM

Yes, the Cub circulates oil constantly through the control valve except when actuating cylinders.  I have overheated hydro's before plowing, so I add coolers on the return side of the control valves on those tractors.  


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#12 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

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Posted February 26, 2015 - 10:53 PM

Yes, the Cub circulates oil constantly through the control valve except when actuating cylinders.  I have overheated hydro's before plowing, so I add coolers on the return side of the control valves on those tractors.  

 

I was going to post that YES, you do need a cooler on the return side when upgrading with a much HP. Daniel's tractors that he repowered all will overheat the Hydros if a cooler is not used. I got his Bush Hog JB with the WIS twin pretty warm plowing with it for a couple hrs at his plow day year before last.



#13 TUDOR OFFLINE  

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Posted February 27, 2015 - 05:17 AM

I was going to post that YES, you do need a cooler on the return side when upgrading with a much HP. Daniel's tractors that he repowered all will overheat the Hydros if a cooler is not used. I got his Bush Hog JB with the WIS twin pretty warm plowing with it for a couple hrs at his plow day year before last.

Engine size doesn't have a lot to do with required cooling. The hydro is only capable of handling that much horsepower if you can keep the tires from spinning. I can break traction with 650 lb of rear end ballast using 2/3 throttle on a 16 hp Onan.

 

As olcowhand mentioned, long runs at high loads, like ploughing a field, will overheat a hydro. The hydro isn't affected by high loads on a PTO driven implement. 



#14 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted February 27, 2015 - 06:40 AM

For some of the members plowing but just having a stock engine and such would it be worth the trouble to run the return lines in steel tubing  like some pick-ups do on  their p/s return ? They might be easier to install and keep clean since there isn't any fins .


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#15 48willys OFFLINE  

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Posted February 27, 2015 - 08:38 AM

I wouldn't think with a stock rig it would be necessary to add any more cooling, but I guess if you had trouble with it getting hot the steel tube might help. I think some cubs came with an extra loop in the steel pickup line to help cooling.

Thanks for all the help. I got a lot of my ideas from Olcowhand, after reading about his repowers and the overheating problems he ran into with the first one, I’m hoping to have that problem fixed before it is a problem. Since I’m going have the transmission cooler I think I’ll go ahead and plumb it in as this is hopefully going to be my plowing tractor. I’ll try to start a build thread when I get started on it.

 


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