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#16 wvbuzzmaster OFFLINE  

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Posted February 16, 2015 - 12:26 AM

I always use the red spray gasket sealer, good stuff. Dad used it on his race engines in the 1970s, so it's always on the shelf and It does a good job. I figure with the proper torque values and patterns, plus the spray sealer that it should be good for many years to come. Don't yank it apart. If you used the old gasket I would say you made the correct call in using a spray gasket sealer.
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#17 bbuckler OFFLINE  

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Posted February 16, 2015 - 07:41 AM

The copper spray will not hurt your head gasket.  Yes, it is overkill, but yes, I have done it myself! 

 

If you have a compression leak around your head gasket, I would make sure you follow Kohler's strict torquing procedures (oil and all) and then run your engine a little bit richer.  Lean engines overheat which cause gaskets to leak.

 

Ben W.

I adjusted the carb to factory specs and it would run good and then cut out and not start back until it cool down. That I why I figure was the head.



#18 dodge trucker ONLINE  

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Posted February 16, 2015 - 08:01 AM

I adjusted the carb to factory specs .

I hate it when people say that. 'factory specs" are only a starting point to get the engine started and warm up so that you can fine tune it.   I find it rare that "factory settings" are exactly what a given engine actually needs to make it run as it should.

that same engine could be used in 50 (probably more) different applications,   also temp, humidity, the gas available in your area, elevation (from sea level)  and even engine condition can make the "best" setting a different number of turns from seated.

I hate non adjustable carbs even more for the same reasons.


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#19 Tennblue59 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2015 - 10:18 AM

Here's what I do with head gaskets - YMMV......

Most of the manuals say to use a NEW head gasket every time (some also say use new bolts...), but on these low compression engines it's overkill. As long as the gasket looks good (no flaking, sections that have peeled off, cracks, burn marks beyond the gasket edge, etc), I generally will reuse them a time or two.

Clean mating surfaces up to BARE METAL - no old gasket, no oil, no anything. Check the head for warpage - I usually paint the head surface with a sharpie then lightly rub it on a sheet of 1000 grit paper on a FLAT surface (pane of thick glass usually works...)once or twice. If you have areas of black left untouched on the mating surfaces, the head is likely warped and a gasket won't fix it!Wire brush the head bolts and get all the gunk and rust off the threads and inspect them for damage. Use a tap to clean out the threads in the head if needed. Reinstall - Gasket. Head. Bolts. Torque. Done! Run it a few hours and then retorque the head bolts.

I have used copper spray or hytak on well-used gaskets before as "insurance", but it isn't a repair for a gasket that shouldn't be used in the first place. And after a couple reuses, I generally put a new gasket on. In the grander scheme of things, a new gasket is cheap compared to the cost of having to pull and replace it if it fails on reassembly...
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#20 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2015 - 08:03 PM

I really took a chance on a 21hp. Kubota diesel and reused the head gasket. A new one was not immediately available so I didn't have much to loose. Cleaned all the surfaces good and re-installed it. Torqued the head bolt to 5 lbs. over specs. and fired it up. Been running that way for two years now with no leaks. I know it's not recommended but it shows that it can be done. 


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#21 wvbuzzmaster OFFLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2015 - 11:18 PM

I have used copper spray or hytak on well-used gaskets before as "insurance", but it isn't a repair for a gasket that shouldn't be used in the first place.


Hytak is the red gasket spray I was thinking of when I posted. I tell you, good stuff, used some when I bolted the throttle body back on my truck (2004 Ford F150 with 4.6L V8). I took the throttle body off to fix a broken bolt originally. Bolted it back on with hytak and had 3 codes on my truck (all for sensors, none regarding the gasket). Decided I goofed something up. So one call that following Monday morning and they told me $400 to clean the carbon out of the throttle body to clear the codes. (when the codes fly it is hard to know what to attack until they mention it lol) Hung up the phone and told Mom who was standing right there in which she was shocked, and then asked me what my plan was. I looked at her and said, "going out there to remove and clean the throttle body myself, and if that doesn't work I am scheduled for Tuesday morning... of next week..." (I think FCVAEC plow day was the upcoming weekend). So yanked the throttle body, cleaned it up, resprayed the gasket with Hytak again, and no more codes since. If a computer can't tell it's in there, who else will. I did call them to cancel the $400 service.
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#22 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted February 18, 2015 - 06:43 AM

Casey is that Hytak still available ?   I couldn't find it on the web only the copper stuff from Permatex

http://www.permatex....-sealant-detail



#23 Tennblue59 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 18, 2015 - 09:11 AM

Casey is that Hytak still available ?   I couldn't find it on the web only the copper stuff from Permatex
http://www.permatex....-sealant-detail


Al, the one I use is another permatex product - proper name is High-Tack Gasket Sealant. Comes in 4 or 16 oz metal can with screw on top and built in brush (kinda like the old rubber cement cans), or a spray. They show it being good up to 500 degrees.

Loctite also makes their own version, called Hi-tack as an aresol spray - looks to be the same thing/same temp range, but I have never used it...

As an aside, not sure where the name change came in... Stuff has been around forever, and pretty much everybody I know calls it hytak - maybe that was the original and it got bought out at some point?!?!?
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#24 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted February 18, 2015 - 11:10 AM

That red spray has been around since the early 70's in one form or another. Even back then there was a dispute going on about whether any type of gasket sealer should be used on a head gasket. I've done it both way without problems. I think that most factory installs go without a sealer. Another Ford verses Chevy argument.  :smilewink:


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#25 JBRamsey OFFLINE  

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Posted February 18, 2015 - 01:44 PM

I never use anything on head gaskets and I've reused gaskets before, too.  It's together, run it.  Why take it apart now?  It's not like it's a rod bolt that can cause more damage if it fails.  Worse case it leaks at some point and you have to install a new gasket.  It's the same work now or later.  I agree with the post about chasing the threads, cleaning the bolts and using lube if recommended.   The purpose of torque is to stretch the bolt for proper clamp load between the head and the block.  If you don't have clean threads, the torque will read higher and you won't have proper stretch of the bolt.  Likewise with dry vs. lubed torquing. 


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#26 wvbuzzmaster OFFLINE  

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Posted February 18, 2015 - 10:28 PM

That red spray has been around since the early 70's in one form or another. Even back then there was a dispute going on about whether any type of gasket sealer should be used on a head gasket. I've done it both way without problems. I think that most factory installs go without a sealer. Another Ford verses Chevy argument.  :smilewink:


It's a good thing Dad drove a Mopar in the 70s. :D

Dad has rebuilt and repaired engines most of his life and has always been my go to for expertise on engines. He might not be in tune with the single cylinders, but if it is a motorcycle, a tractor, a car, or a truck, he knows his stuff. And one thing Dad always does when working on engines especially, is to weigh the odds in his favor. Back when racing his Barracuda with the 340 ci small block, he used Hytak on the cylinder head gaskets, and never had one fail in his hobby racing. If you guys know Murphy's law, you'll understand that if it is worth doing, it is worth doing right, and right or wrong gasket sprays are, I feel more confident with them... Than without.
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#27 wvbuzzmaster OFFLINE  

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Posted February 18, 2015 - 10:41 PM

I never use anything on head gaskets and I've reused gaskets before, too.  It's together, run it.  Why take it apart now?  It's not like it's a rod bolt that can cause more damage if it fails.  Worse case it leaks at some point and you have to install a new gasket.  It's the same work now or later.


I disagree... To an extent. If it runs let it be works great, until you have a problem. If a PO had it apart, you should it apart yourself. You might think it is the craziest thing to do, but unless you know the person, or the tractor was properly restored, properly repaired, or new then you could disregard my previous and following statements. If the PO's repair failed, such as head gasket, the issue becomes burn through of aluminum head or block, equalling dollars and downtime. Granted, if you know when it blows out, you can just shut it down without damage. However, if the head was just installed and Armstrong torqued, when will it fail? Winter or summer? And then what does that cost you, downtime and frustration in addition to dollars. Take it apart to check it out and put it back together, you will feel better.

(I don't follow my own advice here, but due to my large collection of tractors I waive all consequences of my actions within my own collection.) :D
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#28 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted February 18, 2015 - 11:43 PM

Back when racing his Barracuda with the 340 ci small block

 

I never had the heads off the engine in my formula "S" Barracuda so I can't comment. Did represent our High School in the Chrysler  Plymouth  trouble shooting contest and I don't remember what they recommended.  :(


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#29 bbuckler OFFLINE  

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Posted February 22, 2015 - 09:03 PM

I'm taking it to get worked on I don't have enough time got to put up a new greenhouse and the garden needs tilled.



#30 zippy1 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 24, 2015 - 12:57 AM

When it comes to head gaskets, I guess I could be considered anal then. I would never reuse a head gasket, for the few dollars one cost, why not go new?.

I always check my head but using a sheet of sandpaper and a sheet of glass. Tape the paper down and start cross sanding, from one corner to the opposite corner, then switch. This can take minuets, or hours to get a perfectly flat surface. Depends how bad it was when you started.

In your current state, it's a crap shoot if it will last, and for how long? This would drive me crazy.....I'd have it apart an the head flattened out , and a new gasket installed before buttoning everything up to at least you did everything right to lessen your chances of failed.

Your tractor, your call.






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