Jump to content

Nominations for Tractor of the Month
Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
- - - - -

Electric PTO Clutch Problem


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 FilledTires OFFLINE  

FilledTires
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 48125
  • 224 Thanks
  • 192 posts
  • Location: Maine

Posted February 08, 2015 - 11:49 PM

Hi Everyone,

 

I installed a snowblower onto my Ford LGT 165 today. Went to test it out, when I hit snow with it, it blew the fuse.

 

I replaced the fuse, and when I turned it on again, it just blew another fuse.

 

Could my Electric PTO be shorted internally and that's what's causing the high current?

 

The engine is a Kohler K341 with Electric PTO Clutch.

 

I tried bypassing all fuses and going straight from power directly to clutch with a high gauge wire, and nothing happens.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Picture attached to help lure some of you to help!

 

20150208_222437.jpg



#2 glgrumpy ONLINE  

glgrumpy

    Getting Out!

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 8360
  • 6,660 Thanks
  • 6,474 posts
  • Location: Huntington, IN 46750 North East in State

Posted February 09, 2015 - 04:10 AM

If you haven't used the pto in awhile, they sometimes can have the disc rust to the other smooth surfaces and kind of lock up, but would think that would just be making it run all the time then I guess. OR, maybe the bushing  in it's center is rusted up and won't slide and overloads it trying to move?  Try looking at your wire running down to the unit, many times exhausts burn thru them and other items they rub on and wear thru and short to frame.

 

As a note, looking at your picture, that sure is ONE BIG blower for a garden tractor! Zat a Ford Unit? 


  • IamSherwood, WNYTractorTinkerer and FilledTires have said thanks

#3 KennyP ONLINE  

KennyP

    FORDoholic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2253
  • 28,434 Thanks
  • 39,673 posts
  • Location: Collinsville, Oklahoma

Posted February 09, 2015 - 05:14 AM

If you haven't used the pto in awhile, they sometimes can have the disc rust to the other smooth surfaces and kind of lock up, but would think that would just be making it run all the time then I guess. OR, maybe the bushing  in it's center is rusted up and won't slide and overloads it trying to move?  Try looking at your wire running down to the unit, many times exhausts burn thru them and other items they rub on and wear thru and short to frame.

 

As a note, looking at your picture, that sure is ONE BIG blower for a garden tractor! Zat a Ford Unit? 

GL, the blower has the Jacobsen "J" on the chute.

 

Check the wiring right at the PTO. Mine was ran in such a way the pulleys could rub on the wire insulation.


  • FilledTires said thank you

#4 Alc OFFLINE  

Alc

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1094
  • 5,450 Thanks
  • 6,616 posts
  • Location: Bangor Pa

Posted February 09, 2015 - 06:39 AM

If the clutch was shorted like you thought maybe it burned out a wire inside causing the " open " you seem to have by going right to the battery . I would take a test light and go from  battery positive to the clutch positive feed wire , if the light doesn't light maybe you'll find a break in the wire before it goes into the windings , I hope that's the case for you , Al


  • FilledTires said thank you

#5 JDBrian OFFLINE  

JDBrian

    Super Moderator

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2507
  • 9,574 Thanks
  • 14,136 posts
  • Location: Hubley, Nova Scotia - Canada

Posted February 09, 2015 - 06:57 AM

You could have a shorted clutch coil but you also need to check your wiring including the PTO switch wiring. I have had problems with the switch on 2 of my older tractors.  It's never a good idea to bypass the fuse from the circuit of something that is blowing them.  By doing that you allowed almost unlimited current to flow which could start a fire if there is a short somewhere. An easy check of the clutch coil is to turn the key off and measure the coil resistance with an ohm meter. Generally, it will be in the 3-4 ohm range. If the clutch has 1 wire you would measure between that wire and the chassis of the engine it's mounted on. 


  • Alc, IamSherwood, WNYTractorTinkerer and 1 other said thanks

#6 FilledTires OFFLINE  

FilledTires
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 48125
  • 224 Thanks
  • 192 posts
  • Location: Maine

Posted February 09, 2015 - 08:23 AM

Thank you everyone! I will inspect all of the wiring today. I have never used the PTO, this is a recent rebuild for me, so I will check all of those suggestions.

 

The wiring was pretty funky to begin with, so this may be a good time to update everything, and get rid of those annoying glass fuses and switch them to blade type!

 

 

If you haven't used the pto in awhile, they sometimes can have the disc rust to the other smooth surfaces and kind of lock up, but would think that would just be making it run all the time then I guess. OR, maybe the bushing  in it's center is rusted up and won't slide and overloads it trying to move?  Try looking at your wire running down to the unit, many times exhausts burn thru them and other items they rub on and wear thru and short to frame.

 

As a note, looking at your picture, that sure is ONE BIG blower for a garden tractor! Zat a Ford Unit? 

 

The snowblower is a monster isnt it! It is a Jacobsen 2-stage Snowblower and it weighs a ton!


  • KennyP said thank you

#7 FilledTires OFFLINE  

FilledTires
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 48125
  • 224 Thanks
  • 192 posts
  • Location: Maine

Posted February 09, 2015 - 08:52 AM

You could have a shorted clutch coil but you also need to check your wiring including the PTO switch wiring. I have had problems with the switch on 2 of my older tractors.  It's never a good idea to bypass the fuse from the circuit of something that is blowing them.  By doing that you allowed almost unlimited current to flow which could start a fire if there is a short somewhere. An easy check of the clutch coil is to turn the key off and measure the coil resistance with an ohm meter. Generally, it will be in the 3-4 ohm range. If the clutch has 1 wire you would measure between that wire and the chassis of the engine it's mounted on. 

 

So I just took a resistance reading at the PTO Clutch going from the Wire, to Engine Ground, and it reads open line.

 

So does this mean a clutch replacement is necessary? Or is there a way to repair this one?

 

A PTO Clutch is a bunch of copper wire wrapped up, with a wax type coating around it, correct? The open line must mean that the wax coating has melted off somewhere causing a short. Is my understanding of this correct?



#8 KennyP ONLINE  

KennyP

    FORDoholic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2253
  • 28,434 Thanks
  • 39,673 posts
  • Location: Collinsville, Oklahoma

Posted February 09, 2015 - 09:48 AM

Sounds like it is 'open' somewhere in there! Not sure if it can be repaired, may have to take it off and look inside!


  • FilledTires said thank you

#9 FilledTires OFFLINE  

FilledTires
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 48125
  • 224 Thanks
  • 192 posts
  • Location: Maine

Posted February 09, 2015 - 10:17 AM

Sounds like it is 'open' somewhere in there! Not sure if it can be repaired, may have to take it off and look inside!

Looks like it takes more than just mounting a snowblower to make it actually blow snow! I guess that's what makes this stuff fun!



#10 olcowhand OFFLINE  

olcowhand

    Red Tractor Nut & Diesel Addict

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Sponsor
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 20
  • 35,626 Thanks
  • 29,836 posts
  • Location: South Central Kentucky

Posted February 09, 2015 - 11:31 AM

Open means there is a complete break in connection.  Shorted would read either a wrong ohm reading, or a direct continuity. I have found the wire broken/burnt just where the wire enters the clutch & repaired it.  Most often the epoxy or whatever the coil is molded into has dried up & broken apart till a wire hits the metal housing & burns the wire completely in-two.


  • KennyP, JDBrian and FilledTires have said thanks

#11 KennyP ONLINE  

KennyP

    FORDoholic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2253
  • 28,434 Thanks
  • 39,673 posts
  • Location: Collinsville, Oklahoma

Posted February 09, 2015 - 12:03 PM

I found on my LGT 165 that with the rear PTO shaft and all in there, they had the wiring run right through it. I changed that to run the PTO wiring around the other side of the engine.



#12 glgrumpy ONLINE  

glgrumpy

    Getting Out!

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 8360
  • 6,660 Thanks
  • 6,474 posts
  • Location: Huntington, IN 46750 North East in State

Posted February 09, 2015 - 04:17 PM

Those wires in these are VERY thin and hard to work on. About all you can fix that I know is where it enters, as mentioned already. There is a guy on PK forums that lives in Wisconsin, that has fixed or rebuilt many for those guys. Not sure if can be any kind/brand or just the ones PK uses. Been awhile, but last I knew was $100 for a rebuild. Have no idea just what he does to them,  but posters loved that they worked again. His name was Thomas Galauner? or close, think in Janesville, WI.  I can find out more info if you wish, might take a day or so. I just found a MO reciept, but not an address for one I had done. I'll ask on the PK forum.


  • olcowhand and Alc have said thanks

#13 FilledTires OFFLINE  

FilledTires
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 48125
  • 224 Thanks
  • 192 posts
  • Location: Maine

Posted February 09, 2015 - 06:11 PM

So I fixed it!

 

I actually replaced all of the old fuse holders and wiring while I was at it. It's a nice clean, professional looking re-wire job.

 

Here is what the problem was:

 

When I installed the PTO after rebuilding my engine, I didn't thread the wire through the little hole. Since it was not threaded through the whole, it got squished when the PTO engaged, and cut the wire. This created the short that kept blowing my fuses.

 

I attached a picture for your future reference.

 

2015-02-09 16.01.28.jpg


Edited by FilledTires, February 09, 2015 - 06:11 PM.

  • olcowhand, IamSherwood, KennyP and 1 other said thanks

#14 KennyP ONLINE  

KennyP

    FORDoholic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2253
  • 28,434 Thanks
  • 39,673 posts
  • Location: Collinsville, Oklahoma

Posted February 09, 2015 - 06:15 PM

I was hoping it was a simple fix! Glad you found it!



#15 olcowhand OFFLINE  

olcowhand

    Red Tractor Nut & Diesel Addict

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Sponsor
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 20
  • 35,626 Thanks
  • 29,836 posts
  • Location: South Central Kentucky

Posted February 09, 2015 - 06:16 PM

Yep, that would do it!  Glad it was simple.  But I don't understand how you got an "open line" reading??






Top