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425 JD hydro problems (Money pit)


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#1 Alberta Bolens ONLINE  

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Posted February 07, 2015 - 01:43 PM

HI.

Now that I have the engine running in my 425 project. I get to test out the rest of the tractor.  Had it running for about an hour the other day and tried pushing snow today.  Seems to have loose or  week hydraulic functions after it warms up.  Reverse gets slower, the steering doesn't really work if the tractor is moving as well as the blade.  Seems to be growling from under the seat.  Levels are good and I put new hydro filter on.  Thinking I have a weak pump.  

 

I have to do some research / trouble shooting.  Maybe theres a cheap fix.  



#2 GTTinkerer OFFLINE  

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Posted February 07, 2015 - 02:02 PM

I wish you luck on finding a cheap fix but IMHO there isn't anything cheap when it comes fixing older JDs.  But on the other hand if they are properly maintained they will outlast most other brands.


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#3 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted February 07, 2015 - 02:06 PM

It sounds like charge pump issues.  If the charge pump isn't putting out enough fluid, steering & lift functions will stop & hydro will barely pull the machine, sometimes not at all.  I would first pull the charge pump to get a look at it if there are no other obvious leaks or issues.  May simply be a broken drive pin in the gyrotor set.


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#4 FilledTires OFFLINE  

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Posted February 07, 2015 - 02:07 PM

Tee up a hydraulic pressure gauge and check the pressure. Maybe the relief valve is stuck. The relief valve has shims and springs and if they are old may get stuck.

I haven't personally needed to check the relief valves on any of my restorations but I am pretty well read on them.

A bunch of people on here have personal experience with the relief valve and I'm sure they will chime in.
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#5 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted February 07, 2015 - 02:10 PM

Tee up a hydraulic pressure gauge and check the pressure. Maybe the relief valve is stuck. The relief valve has shims and springs and if they are old may get stuck.

I haven't personally needed to check the relief valves on any of my restorations but I am pretty well read on them.

A bunch of people on here have personal experience with the relief valve and I'm sure they will chime in.

 

I've never had a real issue with a relief valve, but it most certainly could be the case.  :thumbs:


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#6 Alberta Bolens ONLINE  

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Posted February 15, 2015 - 04:23 PM

HI

The issues seem  to show up after the system gets warmed up.  1/2 hour of pushing snow.  Thats when reverse fades away and the other functions, Steering and Hydraulic lift dissapear or fade.   

 

That seems like the charge pump.

 Why would it get worse as it warms up?  

Incorrect Hydraulic fluid?

 

I have it on blocks with seat pan etc removed.  Cleaning things up and thinking before I get into it.  

Thinking I should check the pressure when cold and warmed up.  



#7 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted February 15, 2015 - 05:01 PM

Thinner fluid would cause lower pressure & flow if the charge pump is worn, allowing oil to bypass over & around the charge pump gears.  The same would apply for a faulty pressure relief/control valve.


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#8 Alberta Bolens ONLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2015 - 03:27 PM

This thing is making me wonder.  I took out the bypass valve, Implement relief valve,Lube reduction valve and the Charge pressure control valve blew air throughout them make sure no dirt in the orifices and passages.  Put it back together to try out.  I don't have pressure or flow gauges.  After about 10 minutes reverse and the steering started to go.  Whining in reverse and hardly move. Forward seemed ok but steering was weak.  Pointing towards charge pump problem.  

 

As I was putting it back into the shop and was trying to back it up to park.  Suddenly reverse kicked in with a jerk.  So I took it back outside backed up the driveway turned circles backing up hill. Worked the heck out of it in reverse, put the PTO on, no implement just to work the charge pump and warm things up.  Did this for about 45 minutes and it worked fine.  It almost seems to work better the harder longer I worked it. Then when I was parking it, started to whine in reverse a bit.  Then kicked in with a jerk again.  

 

I guess the next step is to check the direction control valves make sure they are clean.  



#9 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2015 - 04:10 PM

The charge pump has nothing to do with the PTO.  The implement control valves can't be the problem either.  I still lean to the charge pump, or air bleed on it's suction side.


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#10 WNYTractorTinkerer ONLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2015 - 04:24 PM

The charge pump has nothing to do with the PTO.  The implement control valves can't be the problem either.  I still lean to the charge pump, or air bleed on it's suction side.

Do this to bleed the pump.  Engage the pump relief lever between the frame and rear right tire then start the tractor and hit the forward and reverse pedals to pull in fresh fluid and bleed the air out of the system.  

 

BTW-  How does the fluid look?  Pull the stick and lay some on a new paper towel and look for dirt or little metal chunkage..  


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#11 101 senior OFFLINE  

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Posted March 01, 2015 - 04:27 PM

I had a bolens years ago that had the same problem. The dealer said trannys were sent to the factory to be repaired at a cost of approx. $2000.00. I took it apart and found that it was a pin that was inside the tranny that attached to the arm that made the tractor go backward and forward. Less than $1.00 later and sometime putting it back together it worked. the clue was the sudden jerking to go forward and back. What happens is occasionally the broken ends of that pin would catch and the tractor would work right for a second. Don't know about yours, but thought I would share this. Good luck.


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#12 WNYTractorTinkerer ONLINE  

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Posted March 01, 2015 - 06:45 PM

Funny how the drive kicks in and out like that..  Check the control linkage as well.  New fluid and filter should help too..  

 

Note-  Drain the old oil into a clean bucket and tape a magnet on  a stick or rod and sweep the old oil checking for metal or tell tale signs of mechanical (Gear) failure.  Also, If it were me I'd replace all seals while I was at it..


Edited by WNYTractorTinkerer, March 01, 2015 - 06:47 PM.

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#13 Alberta Bolens ONLINE  

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Posted May 07, 2015 - 10:43 PM

Ordered a charge pump.  Should be in next week.



#14 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted May 08, 2015 - 06:08 AM

Ordered a charge pump.  Should be in next week.

 

So you took the charge pump off & found a definite problem?



#15 Alberta Bolens ONLINE  

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Posted May 18, 2015 - 10:22 PM

I had a pump sourced and priced, told parts guy to order it.  That night I planned to remove the pump.  

I went down to the shed where it was sitting.  Pulled it up to the shop.  When I had parked it, there was no reverse and the power steering and hydralic lift was very week.  On a whim I decided to put a  battery in it and try it one more time.  It backed it out of the shop and everything seemed to work.  I called the parts store 1st thing next morning cancelled the order.  I was lucky he hadn't placed it yet.  Since then i have put 4 hours on it mowing and running it around the yard with no issues.  

 

Only thing I can figure is something must have been stuck from sitting.  It had sat for 1 1/2 years after I bought it who knows how long before that. 


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