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Another B&S Question - model 140000


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#1 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted December 13, 2014 - 10:48 PM

Hank G.'s question about dating his 143302 engine prompted several incorrect responses.   ....It is sad to see mis-information posted for others to rely on.

 

Trying to research some info for Hank (and myself), I came up with a question for which I have never seen an answer in B&S info. 

 

Now, ALL B&S Model 14xxxx engines were 14 cubic inches.  ....ALL had 2.75" bore x 2.375" stroke.

 

There were 140xxx, 141xxx, 142xxx, 143xxx, 144xxx, 145xxx, 146xxx, and 147xxx model engines.

 

B&S has always stated that the first digit after the displacement in the model number, indicated the "Basic Design Series."  ....These numbers ranged from 0 to 9.  ....Reference was also made that this number related "to cylinder construction, ignition, or other major differences."

 

Does anyone know what these differences are among the models listed above?

 

We were a B&S dealer for over 35 years, yet I have never seen any printed info which explained what the differences were in the various "Basic Design Series" numbers for any of the B&S engines.

 

We know that the 2nd digit after the displacement indicated Horizontal or Vertical crankshaft, and the type of carburetor.  ....Numbers ranged from 0 to 9.  ....Numbers 0, 1, 2, 3, & 4 had horizontal crankshafts, while numbers 5, 6, 7, 8, & 9 had vertical crankshafts.

 

Thanks for any insight offered.  ....I'm here to learn! 


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#2 classic ONLINE  

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Posted December 13, 2014 - 10:59 PM

Here is what I have. The 3rd. digit would be the basic design series.

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Edited by classic, December 13, 2014 - 11:07 PM.


#3 superaben OFFLINE  

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Posted December 13, 2014 - 11:01 PM

Here is how it works, Bruce.

 

BriggsModel Type Code.jpg

 

The only thing we don't know is the type number breakdown.  Briggs did such a great job of keeping records and making sense of their numbering system.  They are in the minority of those we can actually date successfully via the serial number.  That tells me the type information exists.

 

Ben W.

 

 


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#4 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted December 13, 2014 - 11:04 PM

Bearing type.

Nope!  ....That is specified in the 3rd digit after the displacement.



#5 classic ONLINE  

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Posted December 13, 2014 - 11:08 PM

Fixed that Bruce, I jumped the gun.

#6 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted December 13, 2014 - 11:14 PM

Here is how it works, Bruce.

 

attachicon.gifBriggsModel Type Code.jpg

 

The only thing we don't know is the type number breakdown. There's a helluva lot that I don't know!

 Briggs did such a great job of keeping records and making sense of their numbering system.  True, but not all of those records are available, or at least have not been found.

They are in the minority of those we can actually date successfully via the serial number.  That tells me the type information exists. Possibly, but that was not shared with dealers.

 

Ben W.

Ben:

 

Thanks for the response, but you are not understanding my question.  ...I am quite aware of the chart you posted, and that is the source for my question.

 

Please explain what the differences are between the "Basic Design Series" listed in column 2 of that chart.


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#7 HANKG OFFLINE  

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Posted December 13, 2014 - 11:16 PM

So is there a answer for old Hank ?



#8 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted December 13, 2014 - 11:26 PM

So is there a answer for old Hank ?

 

Well, it's been narrowed down to the 20th century.  :wallbanging:   ....Mid-50's to mid-60's, but nothing definitive, yet. :thumbs:


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#9 superaben OFFLINE  

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Posted December 13, 2014 - 11:31 PM

Ben:

 

Thanks for the response, but you are not understanding my question.  ...I am quite aware of the chart you posted, and that is the source for my question.

 

Please explain what the differences are between the "Basic Design Series" listed in column 2 of that chart.

 

No, I was with you, Bruce, but I had to take a daggone phone call.  It was reason #67881 of why not to loan/rent equipment out to your neighbor: when it goes down at 11 o'clock at night he will call you.

 

Anyway.

 

What I am about to state was what I was told by an old Briggs rep.  I have it from no other source, and my current Briggs rep (albeit one who says that old engines are only fit for trash and why am I worrying about them anyway) says he was full of nonsense.  So take it for what it is worth. 

 

The basic design series chart does not exist universally from my understanding.  It was setup to work for each engine "series" like the 14xxxxx we are discussing.  Each series would have had the basic design numbers tagged to the certain features, and what number meant what for one model may have meant something 100% different for the next.

 

The basic design information was not shared with dealers as a chart even for each model.  He said it really was not important to a dealer.  He told me that pertinent information regarding that basic design was shared via parts lists, and I suppose he is right if you think about it.  The basic design number mattered more to engineers and internal factory usage.  He said the basic design number does not even matter in engine replacement research, since it gives nothing away that is pertinent. 

 

I remember him using ignition as the example.  He says that some models swapped to Magnetron ignition along the way and graduated from points and condenser.  That would generate a basic design number change.

 

Ben W.


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#10 wvbuzzmaster OFFLINE  

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Posted December 13, 2014 - 11:34 PM

Has to be how the governor is designed. My Springfields of the 1960s have early 1437XX engines and later 1467XX Briggs engines. They were vertical engines with updraft carburetors. The 1437XX has a governor under the flywheel shroud that is linkages out to the governor plate mounted to the side of the carburetor. The later 1467XX had the governor plate on the side of the block and the governor behind that, which goes to the carburetor with a linkage, not on the side. This has to be a "Design" difference, right?
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#11 superaben OFFLINE  

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Posted December 13, 2014 - 11:35 PM

The type number was a whole other ball of wax.  I was told by my friend the old Briggs rep that a list/chart does exist at the factory, once again broken down by engine model.  It was in engineering when we talked, and he said that it was information that the factory uses quite often but was not distributed to the general dealer network.  However, he said it is very specific information even down to what decals went where and (according to him) which engineer actually made the design. 

 

Like I say, take what I say with a grain of salt.  I heard it from one man, and he is dead now.  He was always right in life, and he had been around for awhile, but this is something no one else seems to know about.  Perchance if we call Briggs Briggs might just back him up. 

 

Ben W.


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#12 superaben OFFLINE  

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Posted December 13, 2014 - 11:38 PM

Has to be how the governor is designed. My Springfields of the 1960s have early 1437XX engines and later 1467XX Briggs engines. They were vertical engines with updraft carburetors. The 1437XX has a governor under the flywheel shroud that is linkages out to the governor plate mounted to the side of the carburetor. The later 1467XX had the governor plate on the side of the block and the governor behind that, which goes to the carburetor with a linkage, not on the side. This has to be a "Design" difference, right?

 

Casey, that would be a good example. 

 

A lot of those kind of differences are what generates the different parts IPLs.  Bruce, you and I know how to use the old paper parts books, and we both remember how each model could have up to a dozen or more parts breakdowns, mostly going by that basic design digit in most cases. 

 

Ben W.



#13 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted December 13, 2014 - 11:46 PM

 

The basic design series chart does not exist universally from my understanding.  It was setup to work for each engine "series" like the 14xxxxx we are discussing.  Each series would have had the basic design numbers tagged to the certain features, and what number meant what for one model may have meant something 100% different for the next.  Agreed !  ....That's why I specified the 14xxxxx engines in my original question.

 

The basic design information was not shared with dealers as a chart even for each model. Agreed!  He said it really was not important to a dealer. True. He told me that pertinent information regarding that basic design was shared via parts lists, and I suppose he is right if you think about it.  Somewhat true, but that is why the TYPE number is most often needed to get correct parts. The basic design number mattered more to engineers and internal factory usage.  He said the basic design number does not even matter in engine replacement research, since it gives nothing away that is pertinent. True.

 

I remember him using ignition as the example.  He says that some models swapped to Magnetron ignition along the way and graduated from points and condenser.  That would generate a basic design number change. That is my understanding, as well.

 

Ben W.

Please understand I am not trying to bust chops or belittle anyone.  ...I was hoping someone has already uncovered this info.


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#14 superaben OFFLINE  

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Posted December 14, 2014 - 09:55 AM

Please understand I am not trying to bust chops or belittle anyone.  ...I was hoping someone has already uncovered this info.

 

I understand what you are wanting, Bruce.  Its an interesting discussion. 

 

If what I am told is right, the basic design code exists at the factory in engineering.  I suppose if we had a cooperating friend at Briggs we could get our hands on it.

 

Ben W.


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#15 Columbia236 ONLINE  

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Posted December 14, 2014 - 01:53 PM

I think I have found what you are looking for,or at least part of it.When this post came up I knew I had read information on this "basic design"  for a model 143302 I have,and after digging I found it,I know this doesn`t answer the whole question but it`s a start It only goes to 5 not 9  Chuck

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