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Massey Ferguson 1655 hydraulic drive problems.


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144 replies to this topic

#46 tractorgarden OFFLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2011 - 05:50 PM

I am not sure what charge pump you have? I don't want you all to think that I'm a know it all. If it is a sunstrand; something to check is the linkage that controls the swash plate, sometimes the linkage moves fine and but the shaft only moves slightly. The problem compounds when more torque is applied to the rear wheels. The swash plate shaft wants to return toward the neutral position under load, notice I did not say to neutral. (creep adjustment) The other thing that I have run into with the sunstrand swash plate shaft is inside that they can shear the roll pin that holds the shaft to the swash plate. Look at a sunstrand parts diagram and you will see what I am saying. Other pump are similar. Keep us posted , Shawn

#47 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2011 - 06:36 PM

I drove it around some more and after a little while the belts were starting to smoke. So I got it back in the garage and adjusted the spring tension to put more tension on the belts. Took it back out to drive it around some more and it is doing better. After a little while longer I thought it was doing really good so then I took it down around the yard to come up the one steeper hill and it barely climbed the hill. You can feel a lot of feedback in the pedal, like the surging feeling and the pedal kicks back and pulsates. The motor never dies down at all.

#48 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2011 - 07:58 PM

Hate to say it, but sounds like the hydro is worn badly. I'm pretty sure Bob (bhts) said he still had a hydro unit for a 1655.

#49 bhts OFFLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2011 - 08:50 PM

Yea i would agree with dan.The pump is probly on it's way out.If it was me i would remove the pump and check the pistons and slippers out. It is pretty easy to do just make sure you have a new gasket to put back on it trust me there the old one will not work again lol.

#50 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2011 - 08:55 PM

I cut my own gaskets from gasket paper, but yes, the old ones likely will not be re-useable. I've never had the pistons or slippers to be worn, but the face of the piston rotor & the face (don't know the technical names) it runs against have always been the issues I've found on bad hydro's. I've had those parts machined in the past & did great, but now I have a lathe & can do it myself.

#51 ducky ONLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2011 - 09:49 PM

My lil' Bro works for a hydraulic repair shop and has looked at several of our Sunstrad units.
Most of the time a small bit of honing on the swash plate and plungers is all that is needed to return the unit to full service. Any Leakage at all at this point in the hydro will start to make it act erratic and loose power.
Have had very good results with every unit that we had serviced.
The gasket between the axle and the hydro are available from Parts Tree.
I use the OEM gaskets to maintain the proper clearance for the bevel gears.

PS. I am sure you checked this but be sure that the belts are not slipping. They have fooled me as well in the past.
Even with new belts the pulleys may be worn so bad that the new belts do not get the proper traction.

Just may 2 cents worth.

#52 coldone OFFLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2011 - 07:07 AM

I had problems with my belts also and it gave me the same symptoms as yours. When i first got it it had the wrong belts so i got a new set from MF. I put them on and and did not have them tight enough and got slippage. I kept tightening them over and over and still got slippage. One day I noticed that the adjusting plate that holds the bearing for the drive shaft and provides the tension for the belts had slipped backwards on the drive shaft. This cuased two problems, the pullies were out of alignment and it allowed the drive shaft to move upwards towards the motor pullies which decreased my belt tension. No matter how much i adjusted the tension the adjusting plate would just get pushed out of alignment. I tried replacing the set screws in the bearing hopeing that it would lock down on the drive shaft and it would for a little while then it would start slipping again. I finally got fed up with it and placed a small tack weld on the bearing collar and drive shaft, after i had the lower pullies alighned with the upper, and my problems went away. Just one other thing to check.

Another thing I found was that someone had put in a bolt that was too short. It was the pivot bolt for the adjusting plate. So when i was tightening the belt adjustment I was actully fighting the bolt being too tight and not letting the plate move freely. I had to loosen the bolt and leave it loose so that the tension spring could do its job.

Before I did the tack weld I was going through belts about every two weeks.

Another way i checked for belt slippage was to put the front of the tractor against a tree, remove the tool tray from under the seat so that you can see the cooling fan, then push the pedal forward and watch the fan blades to see if they slow down as you slowly advance the pedal.

Edited by coldone, March 13, 2011 - 07:14 AM.


#53 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2011 - 08:38 AM

I guess I am going to pull the hydro pump out and see what is wrong. Hopefully I could find somewhere cheap to get it machined.

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#54 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2011 - 10:13 AM

The belts smoking is the catch. If they were tight, then maybe your pulleys are worn bad. I see them worn with almost a second sheave angle just inside the pulley's groove.

#55 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2011 - 11:48 AM

The belts smoking is the catch. If they were tight, then maybe your pulleys are worn bad. I see them worn with almost a second sheave angle just inside the pulley's groove.


I think the initial belt smoking was my fault for not having the belts tight enough at first. I think now the new belts I put on there are burnt so I might have to get new ones again. I did coldone's immovable object test against a tree in low gear and the driveshaft definitely slowed up / stopped before the wheels would think about breaking traction. I pulled the tractor back in the garage and looked at the pulleys a little closer and they do not look worn, the belts do though LOL.

Now here is a question and idea I was thinking about after looking at the driveline setup some more. There is enough room to do it too. Why can't I make up something to go directly onto the engines output shaft to a universal joint and connect the driveshaft directly from the hydro to the motor? Would basically be the same setup as what is on the Cub Cadets and would prove to need less maintenance. I understand that it could break more parts but more then likely the motor should stall before it broke anything too severely.

#56 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2011 - 11:56 AM

Now here is a question and idea I was thinking about after looking at the driveline setup some more. There is enough room to do it too. Why can't I make up something to go directly onto the engines output shaft to a universal joint and connect the driveshaft directly from the hydro to the motor? Would basically be the same setup as what is on the Cub Cadets and would prove to need less maintenance. I understand that it could break more parts but more then likely the motor should stall before it broke anything too severely.


That is how the MF1450/1650 is setup, but no universals...straight shaft, with their belts going upwards to power the rear pto shaft. You can do that George, but you'll lose being able to add rear PTO.

#57 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2011 - 11:59 AM

That is how the MF1450/1650 is setup, but no universals...straight shaft, with their belts going upwards to power the rear pto shaft. You can do that George, but you'll lose being able to add rear PTO.


Without having the rear pto I don't know how it is setup. Where is the rear pto driven off of on the 55's?

#58 tractorgarden OFFLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2011 - 12:34 PM

It is to bad that Massey did not use the timing belt in this application instead of on the timed mower decks.

#59 coldone OFFLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2011 - 12:48 PM

The PTO is driven directly off the motor. It is coupled to the motor stub shaft, The coupling would sit behind the pulley.

Before I would pull the hydro I would get the belt situation straighted out first. Personally I think the belt set up is one of the worst designed system, It should have been two fixed shafts and an adjustable idler for belt tension. I just about ran out of adjustment before my belts got tight enough not to slip.

Here are a few pics of what my setup looks like. You can see the hieght of the belts in the pullies, the amount of adjustment I had to use to get them tight, the shinny area on the drive shaft where the bearing lock collar kept slipping, the amount of angle left in the adjustment plate.

One other item i would like to mention is that if the drive shaft doesnt just fall down when you take the belts off, the pivot bolt is too tight and dosent let the adjustment and spring do its job.

The reason I am harping on the belts is that it took me about 2 months to figure out why my belts kept slipping. Just when I thought I had it figure out, they would start slipping again. it was only after alot of "little" adjustments to the entire adjustment system did i get it right.

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#60 tractorgarden OFFLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2011 - 01:02 PM

I agree, a Harley Davidson belt set up would be nice in there, Or think about how the root type blowers on drag cars are, they use a timed belt and a tensioner.




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