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Pulley Reduction Question


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#1 johndeereelfman OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 08:04 AM

If I don't change the size of the engine drive pulley, but reduce the size of the transmission pulley from a stock 8" diameter down to a custom 5" diameter pulley, will this increase the speed of the tractor, or do I have to decrease the size of the engine drive pulley instead? I know there is a simply ratio for this, but for some reason I just can't seem to remember what it is. I know one will effect the other differently. 

 

Basically, I'm trying to get more speed out of a peerless gear drive transmission without changing any of the internals. As of right now, I can't increase the diameter of the transmission pulley, I can only go smaller. However, the engine drive pulley I can go either way a little bit. 

 

Another question would be, how fast can I turn the gears in a peerless transmission without doing a lot of damage? Keep in mind, I'm only looking for speed here, and not a lot of torque. This isn't going to be set up for pulling a lot of weight, as I'm not looking to do wheel stands!


Edited by johndeereelfman, December 04, 2014 - 09:07 AM.


#2 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 08:07 AM

Decreasing the driven pulley will increase the speed. Going from 8 to 5 should almost double the speed.


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#3 framesteer OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 09:22 AM

Your new travel speeds would be 8/5 or 160% of your old travel speeds (in any gear).  Increasing speed of every gear, shaft, and bearing by 160% would be a good way to find the weak points in the transmission design.  Whether something will fail depends on how much 'safety factor" they built into the design.  Certainly keeping loads to a minimum would be advised.  Maybe consider a better lubricant - synthetic?


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#4 johndeereelfman OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 09:29 AM

Does anyone know how fast these gears can turn without flying apart? Just curious to see if anyone ever put them to the test. I know some guys that pull every weekend can get some high rpm's out of a transmission, but not sure if they are stock rears, or tweaked a little?

 

The tranny that I'm looking to get more speed out of is a 1206 series, three speed. I will be running 23x10.50-12 tires, just not sure yet if I want turf tires or ag tires. I'm leaning towards the turf tires, as traction won't be a necessity. Although I think the ag tires would be easier for the transmission to turn compared to the turf tires, since you're dealing with less tire touching the surface. The fronts tires will be 4.80/4.00-8 tri-rib tires, and the horse power will come from a stock K181 8hp Kohler. This is going to be a custom fab tractor, and will be my first attempt of ever doing a custom project like this. When all is said and done, I'm hoping to have a tractor that resembles either a John Deere BO or a John Deere 60 orchard tractor. Still trying to decide which one I like best, but I'm leaning towards the BO the more I give this thought. Could be quite interesting, and there could be times that I'm going to be asking a lot of questions, so bare with me. If all goes well, the only part of the tractor that won't be custom will be the tractor frame, although I'll have to refab it a little in order to fit the engine. 


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#5 johndeereelfman OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 09:31 AM

framesteer,

 

You make an interesting point. I never gave fluid a thought. In this case, lighter would be better, right? 


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#6 Gtractor ONLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 10:39 AM

While less rubber touching the road does equal less drag, I believe the smoothness of the turfs will actually more than offset that extra drag.   Ag lugs tend to give off a slight vibration as each lug impacts the [hard] driving surface.  This problem will be compounded with higher speeds from different gearing. 

Back in their day,  a good percentage of orchard tractors had turf tires.

 

Looking forward to seeing your project progress!


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#7 Talntedmrgreen OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 03:31 PM

I like to do this with my smaller, old LT's.  Not so much for high end speed (though that is fun), but so I can run at a more normal speed, but at a lower (quieter) rpm for cruising shows, around the property at home, etc.  I baby them, and you can tell it's quite easy to really slam the gears, stall the engine, flip the tractor, etc.

 

With little ones expected to run my machines at some point in the coming years, I'm now also gathering the appropriate parts to add gear reduction (planetary) boxes on my input shaft in place of the driven pulley.  Since my speed is up by around 60%, the optional gear shift will drop me back to very near factory ratios, without having to swap pulleys, belts, etc.

 

I too, am looking forward to your project.  Simple mods that can liven up your GT-experience  =]


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#8 superspeedex OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 03:42 PM

I have a modded (around 26 hp) 16 hp v twin on my speedex with the peerless 2300 series it does about 15 mph at 4200 rpm it rip im surprised i havent tore any gears out of it.  props wheelies like a champ ill upload a wheelie video later.  are you doing away with the variator?  im assuming your doing this to a 110.   You shoudnt have a problem with gears if you do there cheap i have a spare tranny gears.  i just cant keep the spring and balls from wearing out

http://youtu.be/kmYd...cJOkOouf8CmP-kg

 


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#9 DH1 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 05:26 PM

I don't think your going to have a problem going from a 8" to a 5" pulley on the transmission.

If you increased the rpm of the trany 10x then ya, but 1.6x increase in rpm, I think your OK.

Plus you only have 8hp input power there's lots using 16hp engines.


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#10 johndeereelfman OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 06:32 PM

I'm assuming your doing this to a 110.  

 

No, actually I'm going to be using a 1974 70. It doesn't have an engine, and since trying to find an original VH70 is almost impossible, I figured I'll make something out of it that you don't see everyday.

 

I have a game plan, am excited to get working on it, and I think it will look pretty good once I'm done. I'm going to try something different with the wheels, which will take a lot of time and fabrication, plus some added sheet metal, so this won't be a project that will get completed in just a years time frame. I want to take my time, and make each piece of sheet metal as good as it can get. Might be a test of my patience, and could even turn me into not wanting tractors anymore, but at least I can say I tried.

 

Halfscale, if you're reading this, be prepared, as I may be pulling on your ear through this!


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#11 IamSherwood OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 08:19 PM

This might be helpful.

 

http://www.culvermot...Calculator.html


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#12 johndeereelfman OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 09:05 PM

Thanks Will, that will help! :thumbs:


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#13 TokyoDrift99 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 05, 2014 - 12:59 AM

It'll hold up fine, people do this all the time.
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#14 TUDOR OFFLINE  

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Posted December 05, 2014 - 02:19 AM

With changing the rear tire size, there also comes an additional speed increase of 28%.

 

It will be twice as fast as a stock tractor.


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#15 superspeedex OFFLINE  

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Posted December 05, 2014 - 05:59 AM

is the peerless 2300 and 1200 series do they have the same high gear ratio?  cause like mine has the 4th so it may be a way for you to get some extra speed.


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