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1968 Sears Ss12 - Alternate Hydro Filter?

super hydro-trac filter cross-reference hydrostatic

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#1 MountainMichael OFFLINE  

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Posted December 03, 2014 - 09:22 PM

I scoured the web, found a couple of slightly related threads regarding Massey-Ferguson, even asked a question in an old MF thread, but no reply.

 

One of the difficulties in searching for this is that most threads are generically titled:  "Hydro Filter" without any reference to year, make or model.  There are hundreds of such hits and most are totally unrelated.  This makes the searching very long, extremely tedious and in the end, useless. 

 

I took the time and found no direct hits. 

 

I am titling this thread differently so that if a source is found, this thread might serve as a properly searchable thread.  If anyone has suggestions about improving the titling or topic tags, please say so before editing expires for this first post. 

 

I have found no Sears threads directly about this topic or with an answer to the question:  Is there a replacement hydro trans filter that fits a 1968 to 1970 (and related years) Sears Super Hydro-Trac 12?

 

The below is the info I've gathered along with some questions:

 

"Unnecessary":

 

First up:  Recurring web info occurring extremely often is that these old Sears hydros "never" need filters.  I thought:  "That's great!  No need for it."  Unfortunately, during my extensive digging, I found a few references saying that when enthusiasts removed the hydro pan, the filter literally fell apart.  Usually, if the filter falls apart, it is the bottom sheet metal portion that falls right off the filter cartridge.  This means that those filters were almost certainly passing particulate matter for a long time.  In other words, the filter wasn't filtering the hydro fluid.  It had failed. 

 

But let's set aside whether the filters last forever or not.  This thread is not about that.  This thread is to learn if there is a replacement filter that will fit or not.

 

The Sears diagrams show the original part number as 9341H and naturally, it is NLA.  I've searched extensively and cannot find a direct cross-reference to this part number.  If anyone has a filter they are confident will cross from Wix or Hastings or Purolator or NAPA, etc, I sure hope you'll go ahead and post it here.

 

Next up - a possibility from the MF threads:

 

I've read in 2 separate places that the Massey-Ferguson MF12H has an identical hydro transmission to the Sears 12 tractors - but they never say what years.  In a 3rd place, one guy argues that the MF12H hydro trans is NOT identical to the Sears hydro 12's at all.  He claims that the MF12H hydro is the same as the Sears 18's which he claims uses a different hydro drive than the 12's.  I can't verify any of this. 

 

Does anyone know if the MF12H hydro trans is identical to the Sears Super 12 hydro trans and if so, what years?  Because the MF12H (again, years never stated) has a hydro trans filter that supposedly cross-references to the  New Holland JAC545440 and while these are no longer made and have become scarce, I have found 3 of those in stock.  At $31 plus $17 shipping from Partspring dot com, I would prefer to make certain it will work before shelling out that kind of cash.

 

In one thread I can't find anymore, someone said some of the older years of Cub Cadet's with hydros had an identical hydro trans to the Sears SS12 hydro - however, they also did not say what years.  Does anyone know if that is true and if so the years?  Additionally, if it is true, is there a cross-referenced filter that will fit the Cub Cadets's that might, by deduction, fit the older Sears?

 

In conclusion, why?:

 

I began this search only hoping to put a filter on the shelf for 'someday'.  However, having learned that it is not unusual at all to have the filter fall apart upon removal, I now believe it may be more urgent than that.

 

That the filters may fail is not intended as a dig at Sears or the hydrostatic drive manufacturer in any way.  To the contrary, for a cartridge type filter to last 4 decades and more of high temperatures, high flow, high vibration, rough and bumpy abuse is downright amazing to me.   

 

Thank you for your time,

 

Micke

 

 


Edited by MountainMichael, December 05, 2014 - 08:35 PM.

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#2 SonnyT OFFLINE  

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Posted December 03, 2014 - 09:33 PM

From what I know, it is the same tranny and filter as used in a MF12. :thumbs:


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#3 MountainMichael OFFLINE  

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Posted December 03, 2014 - 10:01 PM

From what I know, it is the same tranny and filter as used in a MF12. :thumbs:

Thank you very much for your input.

 

If you are reasonably certain of this, I will order in the filter and attempt the job. 

 

My main concern is:  If I drop the pan and the old filter falls apart... and the New Holland filter doesn't fit... I will then be stuck in a bad situation.

 

Before I take one for the team, can anyone else verify?

 

Thanks!

 

mm


Edited by MountainMichael, December 03, 2014 - 10:30 PM.


#4 dodge trucker ONLINE  

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Posted December 03, 2014 - 10:40 PM

I had a Roper (the company that made the Sears hydro trac) that had been made somewhere  about 1976.  mine was a model 16T.

 

When I got it it had a fram filter on it. I had gotten a spare Fram with the machine too. I changed the filter and fluid the 2nd year we had it because it had taken on some water which froze up on us that we discovered when we went to use it one winter so I towed it home with the gear drive Roper I also had at the time, put it in the garage to thaw and I drained it and refilled it with fresh fluid. so I used that spare filter I had, unfortunately I do not remember the filter number.


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#5 MountainMichael OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 05:58 AM

I have one of the New Holland filters on the way.   They say they shipped something... so count that as 2 in stock at Partspring now.  I'll post pics when it arrives if it looks in the ballpark with the crude Sears diagrams.  If this filter works out, I'll contact Wix and Baldwin to see if they can cross it to anything.     

 

:biting_nails: Contingency plan in case I get the thing apart and it won't fit:  I've just downloaded the Wix 2014 master catalog and it is huge.  It includes a filter lookup by dimensions.  This includes cartridge type filters - and that section includes both oil and hydraulic filters. 

 

I've also submitted a request to Baldwin and to Wix to learn if they have any old info where they might be able to cross Sears filter part number 9341H to any of their products.  That's a long shot but what the heck. 

 

Last ditch plan would be to carefully clean and re-install the original filter - if it doesn't fall apart on careful removal.  That idea makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up, but if all else fails... 

 

Or I could roll up some chicken wire and stick it in an old sock... that'd be a filter, right?   :rolling: It must be late; or early.  Later, y'all.     


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#6 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 06:11 AM

Is this the Hydro-Gear you are referring to? I'm doing some searching around for info on it.

 

If the MF 12H used this rear, IamSherwood (Will) would be the person to contact for info on it.


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#7 MountainMichael OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 01:38 PM

Is this the Hydro-Gear you are referring to? I'm doing some searching around for info on it.

 

If the MF 12H used this rear, IamSherwood (Will) would be the person to contact for info on it.

KennyP,

 

The Hydro-Gear overhaul and parts manual you linked sure looks an awful lot like it to me.  I note that what would be the oil dipstick area of the lower casting on the Sears is different in some ways and of course no dipstick there in the manual you kindly provided. 

 

Additionally, the top plate by the shifter shaft looks different in the overview pic.  In the internal pic, I note that the top shaft plate also has a detent ball and spring which the Sears does not.  Therefore, there may be a receiver detent depression in the shifter shaft, too.  Minor stuff; I suspect the top plate difference might just be some minor parts changes to accomodate whatever type of shifter the specific tractor used.  

 

But the rest sure looks VERY similar to my eyes.  There is a better photo of the filter and pan than Sears diagrams provides; that sure looks the same, too.  However, I can't confirm if the rest of it is identical or not.

 

Maybe important:  I just noticed that the overhaul manual you kindly provided shows the filter as part number 545440.  That is a mostly direct match to the New Holland part number.  Now maybe this is a later manual for MF12 hydros that simply had the New Holland PN in it, I don't know.  Still, it adds a bit to my confidence level.

 

Looking at internal diagrams in this manual compared to Sears internal diagrams, there really are too many similarities to ignore.  Having just reviewed this manual next to Sears diagrams, at this point I'd bet a nickel the New Holland filter that crosses to MF12 will work in the Sears.    

 

Thank you very much for your input. 

 

Pursuant to your suggestion, I contacted IamSherwood by pm asking him if he would please take a look at this thread and provide his input and opinion.

 

For quick reference, below is the pic from the manual of the filter, pan and housing internal zoomed as best I could. 

 

Jacobsen filter and pan pic.jpg

 

And for direct comparison, here is the image from the Sears diagrams:

Sears diagram of filter.jpg

 

Unless I'm looking at the above 2 wrong, there is a big difference in how the lower casting attaches to the upper.  Opposite side...  not saying that DQ's the New Holland filter; just that the hydro drive design may be very different between the 2.  Ok, I probably was looking at it wrong. 


Edited by MountainMichael, December 04, 2014 - 02:29 PM.

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#8 Sawdust OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 01:59 PM

Mike here is a few pics of my filter on my 1968 MF12 H. The last time I researched this the filter was no longer available anywhere except New Holland. Its hard to believe no one else has made a replacement for this one.

 

hydro filter1.jpg hydro filter2.jpg hydro filter3.jpg

 

There's a spring that goes on the bottom of the indent on the filter & sits between it &  the cover. My filter just goes up into the top of the reservoir. Hope this helps.

hydro filter4.jpg


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#9 MountainMichael OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 02:07 PM

Mike here is a few pics of my filter on my 1968 MF12 H. The last time I researched this the filter was no longer available anywhere except New Holland. Its hard to believe no one else has made a replacement for this one.

 

attachicon.gifhydro filter1.jpgattachicon.gifhydro filter2.jpgattachicon.gifhydro filter3.jpg

 

There's a spring that goes on the bottom of the indent on the filter & sits between it &  the cover. My filter just goes up into the top of the reservoir. Hope this helps.

attachicon.gifhydro filter4.jpg

That is very helpful.  Thank you very much for info and the excellent pictures!

 

It appears even the New Holland PN is no longer made and has become pretty scarce.

 

From some digging in the wee hours looking up filters by dimension, it appears the goose neck on top of the OEM filter is going to reduce the chances of finding one by dimension to "a needle in a haystack". 

 

I see a number faintly inked on top of your filter:  T9760111 or is it 50111? 

 

Googling now to see if that might provide another cross-reference to a filter.. but alas, neither number even searched individually comes up with anything new.  In fact, either is a unique enough number that even mighty google could only come up with very few hits; 5 for one, 3 for the other - and none related to filters.  

 

Micke S.


Edited by MountainMichael, December 04, 2014 - 02:17 PM.

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#10 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 02:11 PM

Micke, the manual I linked to is for a Jacobsen, so that is why it has New Holland part #'s.


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#11 MountainMichael OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 03:00 PM

I just stepped out the door on the way to the parts shed - oops - I meant 'the mail shed' when I found the below on my doorstep already.  Wow. 

 

The core was glued to the caps a bit out of line, but I suppose that won't matter.  Also, no O-ring or seal provided but I have SAE and metric O-ring selections so it shouldn't be a problem to match up something similar to original; or just re-use the original O-ring or seal if it is ok.

 

It's pretty dusty so I might use a very slight vacuum on it to clean out any dust on the wrong side of the filtration.  Or just flip it upside down and tap it a few times.  

 

New Holland shipping ticket.jpg

 

New Holland box.jpg

 

Note the added inked numbers in the below.  Probably not searchable, but still, some new numbers.  Could just be a date and time code I suppose:

 

New Holland inked numbers - gooseneck end.jpg

 

New Holland lower quartering view.jpg

 

I'll take more pics with a ruler for scale if it turns out the thing fits. 

 

mm


Edited by MountainMichael, December 04, 2014 - 03:05 PM.

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#12 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 03:36 PM

That didn't take long!



#13 MountainMichael OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 04:26 PM

That didn't take long!

Yeah, I'd ordered it a few days ago but didn't want to say for certain that it was a stocked item until it shipped.  I thought they were delaying things because it only showed shipped last night... but no.  Here it is.


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#14 Sawdust OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2014 - 04:27 PM

That is very helpful.  Thank you very much for info and the excellent pictures!

 

It appears even the New Holland PN is no longer made and has become pretty scarce.

 

From some digging in the wee hours looking up filters by dimension, it appears the goose neck on top of the OEM filter is going to reduce the chances of finding one by dimension to "a needle in a haystack". 

 

I see a number faintly inked on top of your filter:  T9760111 or is it 50111? 

 

Googling now to see if that might provide another cross-reference to a filter.. but alas, neither number even searched individually comes up with anything new.  In fact, either is a unique enough number that even mighty google could only come up with very few hits; 5 for one, 3 for the other - and none related to filters.  

 

Micke S.

T9700111 is the number. The only cross reference I ever found was the New Holland or Minneapolis Moline JAC545440


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#15 IamSherwood OFFLINE  

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Posted December 05, 2014 - 07:32 AM

Sorry I haven't got around to throwing in my 2 cents worth, which isn't much.

As far as I know, that Jac545440 is the one to use in a MF12H.

 

I've never changed one. When I restored my 12H, it looked good enough

for the occasional Sunday drive, so I left it alone. I've got another 12 to work on

later this winter, which will be a working girl, so I better get on it and order one.

 

Good to see you got your filter already, and answered the question. That info will

be helpful to many. :thumbs:


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