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Coil Wired Backwards And It Ran


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#1 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted November 26, 2014 - 05:55 PM

Put a new ignition switch in the 1053 today while I fried the turkey for tomorrow.  The PO had really cobbled things up good.  Had wires soldered to loop terminals and taped, wires twisted and taped, no solder, loop wire end plugged into a female spade terminal.  But what really got me was the coil was wired backwards.  The negative side was wired to the switch and the positive side went to the points.  I did not think a coil would work if it was wired backwards.  Any one with more electrical knowledge than I have anything to educate me a little?

 

Haven't tried the new switch as yet as I don't have the starter back from rebuild.  But the lights work when the switch is on and they go off with the switch.  Starter relay clicks when the switch goes to the start position.  That is as far as I have got.


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#2 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted November 26, 2014 - 06:00 PM

Cant say for sure as I have never tried it!

Did you get the proper 3 prong switch 1719143?


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#3 MyBolens1053 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 26, 2014 - 06:09 PM

Electricity works very similar to waterflow in a hose. Your wire starts at one end and end at another. Unless there is a flow control device (Shunt resister, diode, bridge rectifier, etc. electricity will go in any direction in AC and will flow from Negative to Positive in a DC battery circuit. The ignition coil is just a big capacitor storing voltage until it is released. Doesn't really matter the direction how the voltage gets in there as long as it has a way to release it.

 

But, the more electronics we see in the circuits the more delicate the system becomes.


Edited by MyBolens1053, November 26, 2014 - 06:10 PM.

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#4 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted November 26, 2014 - 06:45 PM

The switch I got was NOT the Bolens 3 prong switch.  I used a 5

 

Electricity works very similar to waterflow in a hose. Your wire starts at one end and end at another. Unless there is a flow control device (Shunt resister, diode, bridge rectifier, etc. electricity will go in any direction in AC and will flow from Negative to Positive in a DC battery circuit. The ignition coil is just a big capacitor storing voltage until it is released. Doesn't really matter the direction how the voltage gets in there as long as it has a way to release it.

 

But, the more electronics we see in the circuits the more delicate the system becomes.

That makes sense if I would have stopped an thought it through a little further.  Where the coil was the only item between the battery and the points it would not make any difference how it was wired.  Been away from the electronics work to long I guess.  Thanks for straightening me out on that.

prong switch from NAPA for 1/4th the cost or less.  Don't make any difference where the switch came from as long it has the correct connection between the proper terminals. OFF - no connection between any post.  ON - connection between Battery, Ignition and Lights.  START - connection between Battery, Ignition andf Starter Relay.



#5 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted November 26, 2014 - 06:47 PM

Don't know what happened up there but it sure didn't come out right.  I used a 5 prong switch from NAPA.  Could care less about it being original as long as it works. 



#6 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted November 26, 2014 - 07:34 PM

Are you getting spark with that switch?

Never had any 5 prong work on those tractors.....


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#7 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted November 26, 2014 - 07:49 PM

I haven't turned it over as the starter is in for rebuild.  The switch meters out that power is going to the ignition in both the on and start p[osition.   I agree with you to the extent that many of the MTD, if not all need a grounded switch to work.  A lot of the 5 terminal switches did not put power to a terminal for ignition when in the start position.  Will let you know if it works OK when I get the starter back.  Possibly Friday, if they had the parts.  They are an old IH repair shop and sold a lot of the Cub Cadets in the past - until a few years prior to MTD buy out.  Cub used the same D R starter generator on their GT's.  Did you ever see where one company bought out another and made improvements?  Always drag the good one down to make them cheaper.



#8 dodge trucker ONLINE  

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Posted November 26, 2014 - 08:02 PM

it's a 12V coil as the old cars took?   I sill have an old school Snap on scope in my garage (remember the old Sun Scopes? Snap on bought them out)  and with a car it would run but the pattern on the scope was flip flopped.


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#9 MyBolens1053 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 26, 2014 - 08:35 PM

Basically the same 12V coil in automotive. I have a list somewhere here that cross references all the make and models of cars, trucks, tractors, etc. that use the same coil but, carry a different mfg. number depending on the named application Whether it be a GM, Saab, Audi, Ford, Case, IH, Subaru, Datsun, Hudson, Renault, BMW, Allison Chalmers, Gravely ... it's the same coil. Same specs, etc.

 

Only difference is the PRICE. Anywhere from $6 to $130+.


Edited by MyBolens1053, November 26, 2014 - 08:36 PM.

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#10 MyBolens1053 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 26, 2014 - 08:38 PM

It's also like Indak makes the majority of ignition switches for tractors and heavy equipment. Just gotta find who used what under each brand name.


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#11 MyBolens1053 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 26, 2014 - 08:41 PM

On the 850, 1050, 1053 with points and condenser style motor you need a Bat terminal, Run terminal and a start terminal. Bat and Run need to connect during running. Bat, Run and Start all need to connect during the starting of the motor.


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#12 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted November 27, 2014 - 08:22 AM

it's a 12V coil as the old cars took?   I sill have an old school Snap on scope in my garage (remember the old Sun Scopes? Snap on bought them out)  and with a car it would run but the pattern on the scope was flip flopped.

I know exactly what your referring to.  I have used them myself but a long time ago.  Never did see the scope with the coil wired backwards though.  That post brought back some old memories.  Fingers don't like doing that kind of stuff any more.



#13 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted November 27, 2014 - 08:25 AM

On the 850, 1050, 1053 with points and condenser style motor you need a Bat terminal, Run terminal and a start terminal. Bat and Run need to connect during running. Bat, Run and Start all need to connect during the starting of the motor.

Keep in mind that I am NOT using the original wiring block that plugs all wires in together in one block.  That block was missing when I got the tractor.  The switch I got from NAPA I am sure is an INDAK switch as my old keys would work in it as well as the new switch key would turn the old switch.



#14 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted November 27, 2014 - 08:28 AM

Are you getting spark with that switch?

Never had any 5 prong work on those tractors.....

Probably not by using the original wiring block for the switch hookup.  Eliminate that block and put the individual wires where they belong and it would more than likely work A-OK.



#15 wvbuzzmaster OFFLINE  

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Posted November 27, 2014 - 09:49 AM

I had one of my gts come in working excellent except the charging system. I looked at all the wires and nothing was out of order. Then i saw it, battery was installed as positive ground (opposite the norm). Switched the battery around and charging system (s/g) worked too. Crazy the abuse electrical components can stand.




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