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Headlights On Tractor Without Charging System


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#16 MyBolens1053 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 06, 2014 - 09:44 PM

Okay, found your wiring and charge system for your B&S powered G10 (1055).

Also how optional light kit would wire up.

 

1055 wiring with B&S engine.JPG

 


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#17 MyBolens1053 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 06, 2014 - 09:46 PM

The numbers on that stamping: 251417 0159-01 77020712

 

Keep this handy if you ever need parts for your B&S motor.


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#18 red79 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 06, 2014 - 09:51 PM

Thanks for pulling that up! I noticed that my charging system wire isn't even hooked up. I'm wondering if this will be as simple as hooking it back up.
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#19 MyBolens1053 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 06, 2014 - 09:53 PM

Thanks for pulling that up! I noticed that my charging system wire isn't even hooked up. I'm wondering if this will be as simple as hooking it back up.

 

You can only hope at this point. Otherwise, a new starter and wiring will get you fixed.


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#20 GTTinkerer OFFLINE  

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Posted November 07, 2014 - 06:57 PM

Have you checked the red wire hanging out for power when the engine is running?  The wire may be coming out of the alternator coil and if so and if the coil is working it should show about DC volts. 


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#21 MyBolens1053 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 08, 2014 - 04:09 AM

It's highly probable that the Red wire is coming from the Ignition Switch off of the 'C' terminal. If it is, then it will connect to the Charging Terminal on the starter.


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#22 Duey C OFFLINE  

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Posted November 08, 2014 - 08:24 PM

Looks like a gear drive starter on that Briggs, yes? Your starter already works. No need to replace.

 

Here's my dumb question: Is there a smallish aluminum block under the dash, perhaps with a few fins on it and most likely three wires hooked to it? The Reg/Rec.

 

Here's where I guess! The regulator/rectifier (mentioned above) had crapped out long ago and would kill the battery if left hooked up...... Catch my drift?


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#23 MyBolens1053 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 09, 2014 - 09:02 AM

Looks like a gear drive starter on that Briggs, yes? Your starter already works. No need to replace.

 

Here's my dumb question: Is there a smallish aluminum block under the dash, perhaps with a few fins on it and most likely three wires hooked to it? The Reg/Rec.

 

Here's where I guess! The regulator/rectifier (mentioned above) had crapped out long ago and would kill the battery if left hooked up...... Catch my drift?

 

It's true that it's a gear drive starter but it also is a small generator and has two terminals near the gear head for charging and lights power. No regulator/rectifier from the factory in this design.


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#24 Duey C OFFLINE  

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Posted November 09, 2014 - 09:12 AM

Now that's too cool!

I learned today. :-)


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#25 Bruce Dorsi ONLINE  

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Posted November 09, 2014 - 11:01 AM

"It's true that it's a gear drive starter but it also is a small generator and has two terminals near the gear head for charging and lights power. No regulator/rectifier from the factory in this design."     ( See below ---- it may, or may not, have one depending on style of alternator.)

 

I respectfully disagree with your statements.

 

The gear which spins the flywheel rides on a spiral.  .....When the starter is energized, the gear travels forward on the spiral to engage the teeth on the flywheel ring gear.  .....As soon as the engine starts, the engine rpm exceeds the starter rpm, so the starter gear travels rearward on the spiral, disengaging from the flywheel ring gear.  

 

The gear-drive starter does not, and should not, turn continuously while the engine is running, so there is no charging being done inside the starter!

 

This B&S model #251417 type # 0159-01 code #77020712 appears to be equipped with a dual circuit alternator, as shown in the wiring diagram posted in this thread.   ......The alternator coils are located under the flywheel. 

 

The dual circuit alternator provides DC (direct current) for battery charging and AC (alternating current) for headlights.

 

There were eight styles of  alternators used on the B&S 250000 model engines.  ....However, there were only two styles of dual circuit alternators.   ...The early style did have a rectifier which was a separate component.   ....The later style had a diode encased at the connector.

 

Comparing info in the Bolens diagram and info in the B&S repair manual, it appears this G-10 may have the later-style dual circuit alternator, but removal of the shroud (and possibly the flywheel) is necessary to see which style is installed.   ....[The B&S parts list which I have does not specify which style was used on which type number engines.]

 

Once the style of alternator is indentified, testing procedures, proper components, and correct connections can be offered.


Edited by Bruce Dorsi, November 09, 2014 - 11:02 AM.

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#26 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted November 09, 2014 - 11:15 AM

Bruce ,as always I learn something new from your posts ! I never even thought there would be both a/c & d/c systems on a tractor !
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#27 MyBolens1053 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 09, 2014 - 02:01 PM

I respectfully disagree with your statements.

 

The gear which spins the flywheel rides on a spiral.  .....When the starter is energized, the gear travels forward on the spiral to engage the teeth on the flywheel ring gear.  .....As soon as the engine starts, the engine rpm exceeds the starter rpm, so the starter gear travels rearward on the spiral, disengaging from the flywheel ring gear.  

 

The gear-drive starter does not, and should not, turn continuously while the engine is running, so there is no charging being done inside the starter!

 

This B&S model #251417 type # 0159-01 code #77020712 appears to be equipped with a dual circuit alternator, as shown in the wiring diagram posted in this thread.   ......The alternator coils are located under the flywheel. 

 

The dual circuit alternator provides DC (direct current) for battery charging and AC (alternating current) for headlights.

 

There were eight styles of  alternators used on the B&S 250000 model engines.  ....However, there were only two styles of dual circuit alternators.   ...The early style did have a rectifier which was a separate component.   ....The later style had a diode encased at the connector.

 

Comparing info in the Bolens diagram and info in the B&S repair manual, it appears this G-10 may have the later-style dual circuit alternator, but removal of the shroud (and possibly the flywheel) is necessary to see which style is installed.   ....[The B&S parts list which I have does not specify which style was used on which type number engines.]

 

Once the style of alternator is indentified, testing procedures, proper components, and correct connections can be offered.

 

I've been edumacated. :rocker2:   Thanks Bruce. I surely learned something on another style of system.


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#28 MyBolens1053 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 09, 2014 - 03:04 PM

I looked over again the wiring diagram for the 1055 (G-10) w/B&S motor. There isn't any regulator/rectifier in the prints. Now on the Tecumseh motor there is a voltage regulator.


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#29 Bruce Dorsi ONLINE  

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Posted November 09, 2014 - 04:06 PM

I looked over again the wiring diagram for the 1055 (G-10) w/B&S motor. There isn't any regulator/rectifier in the prints. Now on the Tecumseh motor there is a voltage regulator.

 

On B&S engines with a gear-drive starter, the charging components were supplied by B&S, and carried B&S part numbers.  ....Bolens did not stock or supply them.

 

The only items carrying a Bolens part number were the wires connecting to the B&S supplied connections.

 

http://gardentractor...olens-1055-g10/

 

As I stated previously, the early-style dual circuit alternator did indeed have a rectifier mounted to the shroud (not sure if it was internal or external mount).  ...It was a B&S part, so it would not appear in the Bolens paperwork.

 

The later-style dual circuit alternator did not use a rectifier, but used a single diode.  ....This also was supplied by B&S and would not appear in the Bolens paperwork.


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#30 Bruce Dorsi ONLINE  

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Posted November 09, 2014 - 04:23 PM

Detailed info on identifying and testing B&S charging systems for this engine can be found in the "B&S Service Manual for Out of Production Engines 1919-1981."   It carries B&S # CE8069-5/00, and is available online or through B&S dealers. ....It is approx 3/4" thick. 

 

I just uploaded a 21.3MB pdf version of this manual to the B&S Manuals forum.

  
http://gardentractor...ines-1919-1981/

 

The pertinent info for the dual circuit alternators can be found in Section 7 pages 50, 51, 52, 54, 63, 64, & 65 of this manual.


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