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Looking At A B1


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#1 vintageiron OFFLINE  

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Posted October 22, 2014 - 09:51 PM

Hi, new to the forum here!

 

I've been looking for an older Allis Chalmers tractor. As a kid, a family member had one and I've always wanted to find one of my own ever since finding a good used deck, disc, and plow at a local flea market.

(Seller said they're of a B1).

Over the weekend I looked at one not too far from here that looks good but has no spark, its the first one I've seen in this good of condition for a price I can afford.

 

http://southjersey.c...4720004127.html

 

It has strong compression, the steering is tight with no slop, an i don't see any leaks.

Were these known for any issues I should beware of?

 

 

 


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#2 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted October 22, 2014 - 10:10 PM

Bevel gear box is one area that could be an issue, but usually OK. The engine will have points, so worst case you upgrade to automotive style, or possibly replace magneto.

It does look like a good start to a nice tractor. I would try to come down some because of the no spark and can't test out the rest.

#3 VintageIronCollector OFFLINE  

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Posted October 22, 2014 - 11:04 PM

I have one in better shape for a little less


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#4 vintageiron OFFLINE  

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Posted October 23, 2014 - 02:14 AM

I have one in better shape for a little less

The seller told me $300 cash, no less if I want it.  He said its going on eBay piece by piece for any less.

New Freedom, PA is about 150 miles from me one way, that's a 6+ hour round trip drive at 10 mpg in my truck. I drove out to York to pickup a motorcycle a few months ago and it killed a day and two tanks of gas.

The spark thing don't sound that bad, either an internal coil or go automotive style, either way its only about $30.
I just did a coil on a model 19 on an old trash pump, its not a big deal. The tractor don't seem to have much use on it, the original tires show little to no wear, the steering feels excellent, tighter than anything else I've looked at, and the shifter feels crisp and not sloppy or loose.

 

  I looked at one that was prettier but it was well worn with lots of slop in the steering and a pulley that was loose on the shaft at the middle gear box. It also had larger tires that didn't look right on one of these. It had a Craftsman seat, lots of overspray from an orange paint job, and the motor had been swapped out for a newer model. It ran but smoked bad. That seller wouldn't budge off of $700. I went back to the same guy about another tractor he had listed and the B1 that I had looked had sold, I have no idea for how much but it wasn't more than a week after I saw it.

 

Does anyone have any idea how many of these B1 models were built and how many years they were produced?

 



#5 oldiron OFFLINE  

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Posted October 23, 2014 - 02:48 AM

I bought a B1 in similar shape a while back, before I found my 916, it needed a coil so I used a Bosch blue coil and cleaned the points, it was up and running like new. I really liked the machine but decided to go with something with hydraulic lift.

I paid $350 for mine, sold it running for $850 after spending about $30 on it.

I didn't have any attachments for mine other than a Brinly plow but it pulled that just fine.

I'd say $300 for a good solid machine is a decent deal. Just about every older AC or Simplicity with that style motor has a bad coil if its not been either replaced or converted to a 12v system.


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#6 petrj6 ONLINE  

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Posted October 23, 2014 - 05:19 AM

   I would say that has been repainted at some point or another, no decals is a dead giveaway.  if it ran then $300 would be a good price but not running with no mower deck that price seems a bit hi.  remind the seller that if he sells it on e-bay than he has to pay all the fee's and deal with the BS!!  tell him $200 then settle on $225 :D   As a rule I never pay more than $200 for anything that will not run!!  good luck.

    Oh and one other thing, those are pretty common here in the northeast.  they are getting a bit harder to find but they are still more common than allot of the other brands of that era.

                                      Pete


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#7 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted October 23, 2014 - 05:41 AM

I thought that price was a little high but then again I'm CHEAP . But here's one pretty far but it might give you an idea of what you could but for a little more $$ , Then again even figuring out all the gas you would use you might still be cheaper with this one . Here's one my friend gave me , his church was throwing it out Good Luck

 

http://gardentractor...ked-up-the-b10/

 

http://winchester.cr...4693117241.html



#8 boyscout862 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 23, 2014 - 06:39 AM

Welcome to GTT. The B1s and B10s are great tractors. $300 is abit high. The B10 in WV is a nice set but that seems a little high too. I've never paid more than $200 for a GT either. I will say that the B1 or the Simplicity 725 are the most fun to drive. Check out our Manuals Section for the manuals you may need. Visit www.SIMPletrACtors.com for history and info on the tractors. Be carefull, you can spend hours there looking through their info. Good Luck, Rick

Here are a pair for sale http://gardentractor...wonder-boy-700/

Edited by boyscout862, October 23, 2014 - 06:42 AM.


#9 Talntedmrgreen OFFLINE  

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Posted October 23, 2014 - 07:02 AM

Have you been shopping long for a suitable tractor?  If you feel it is a reasonable price, based on others you have seen, go for it.  I looked casually for 3 years for mine, and drove 5 hours one way to get it.  I saw and passed on several in the $300-500 range, but all ran.  I believe he is priced very, very high, and I simply cannot work with a seller who 'threatens' to destroy a tractor simply if he cannot find a naive buyer to overpay for it whole (and save him the labor and risk of parting it out).

 

Even if f it had a deck, ran and drove, he would be priced fair at best, at $400, IMO.  There are several red flags on this specific machine, as it sits.  If it were any other model, I would not advise more than $100.  I may personally go to $200 on this one, if the steering, BGB and tranny felt good in person.  That's $100-150 in parts, and the rest is pretty negligible.  He's nuts if he thinks he can part it for $400....and premium price parting takes a loooong time.

 

If you want a B-1 for nostalgia/collecting purposes, you are shopping for a GT that is more collectible than your average Simplicity/AC, BUT, that doesn't mean you need to hurry and overpay for it.  It may mean it should be worth some time and gas $$ though, for the right deal.  Let him part this one out...he has no parts that could sell for a whole lot anyway.  The only parts selling point differentiating this tractor from one of the billion Simplicity 700/725's out there, is the hood, and maybe the grill trim.


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#10 vintageiron OFFLINE  

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Posted October 23, 2014 - 11:50 AM

I've been looking for about 5 months now. I've gone to see about 15 or so B1 models and a few newer models. The tractor I remember was yellow with a flat hood, other than that I can't say for sure what model the one I used as a kid was. The throttle and starter button on the B1 are the same as the one I used back then.

 

Price wise those that I've found have been anywhere from $400 to $1600. The three that were over a grand came with attachments. None had a deck.

I'm not concerned about attachments, I'll only likely use it for gardening. Being repainted isn't a big deal, just so its yellow.
The paint on the one on CL this time is acceptable but not great, but at least its not rusty.

Only two that I've seen have been running, and both had newer 10hp engines.

Every last one of the others had badly worn front ends and worn steering. One had nearly a half turn of the steering wheel of play.

I was more than impressed with the condition of this last one since it shows so little wear. My guess is that its had very little use over the years. The seller does also have a parts motor that he said I could have with it, its another model 19 with a broke rod or something, but it still has spark.

 

I've not bothered to go look at a few cheaper tractors mainly because they looked so bad in the pics, most had the look of being stored outdoors for decades.


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#11 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted October 23, 2014 - 12:10 PM

With the parts tractor in the mix, it does sweeten the deal a little.

#12 vintageiron OFFLINE  

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Posted October 23, 2014 - 07:30 PM

There's no parts tractor, just a spare motor, a model 19 on a trash pump with no compression, but its got spark. It felt like the rod was broke or missing to me. It spins with no resistance, a pull of the rope lets the motor spin a half dozen times freely. its also got no oil in it.

 

I don't put much value on the spare motor, the air cleaner set up is different, and a new coil is only $34. I don't suppose much else on that motor other than the carb will be of any use.

 

I left the seller an email and a final offer of $250, we'll see what happens.


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#13 Talntedmrgreen OFFLINE  

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Posted October 23, 2014 - 09:31 PM

Holy crap...I spend an insane amount of time browsing all over the country, and I cannot imagine seeing 15 B-1's in 5 months time! The prices you have seen are insane. $500-600 gets you a nicely kept, running, all original machine...and thats midwest pricing where the AC ag guys go nuts over anything Allis.

We need to help find you a nice one and ship it. A B1 with deck ships for under $200.

#14 oldiron OFFLINE  

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Posted October 23, 2014 - 10:09 PM

This is more like the prices I'm used to seeing around here:

 

http://www.ebay.com/...cvip=true&rt=nc

 

While I think this is crazy money for a rough old machine, the plow alone would sell for $300 here. I just sold one of my spares for $300 to a guy who came out to look at a rolling WH chassis. He bought the AC blade to make it work on the $350 rolling Wheel Horse chassis he bought off me. I listed the WH over the summer for $200 and got two hundred emails, so I killed the ad, sat on it and relisted it last week for $400 OBO and sold it to the first guy who showed up.

By the time he left he bought a B series wheel horse, the AC plow blade, two Cub Cadet rear wheel weights for $150, and a set of used skinny Duro True Power ags for $150.

 

When I sold my B1 I had 20 emails in an hour on it, the first guy who showed up bought it.

If the OP isn't interested in that tractor, I am, I can double my money on it pretty quick.

That machine will bring good money in pieces too, every had to buy a specific BGB or transaxle?

 

While most of use would most certainly just go find a donor machine for cheap, the average owner calls the dealer or goes online looking for the part he needs and breaks out the credit card. I had a guy bugging me to sell the spare seat off a parts B110 I had, not wanting to part out a complete machine I ignored the offer, he finally showed up one day with $200 cash and kept insisting he buy the seat. I offered him the whole machine for $500, but he just wanted the seat. When I said I wasn't parting it out he upped the offer to $300. He left with the seat. A month later he came back wanting the deck which I sold for $200, and another $40 for the front rims, he then came back last spring and bought the front axle assembly and spindles for $100. I'm not sure where he's from, but his truck has PA tags. Apparently he's restoring one and the parts on mine are better than those on his. I hated to part out a complete machine that most likely only needed a carb cleaning and points but it came with two other B110's I have as a second parts machine, all three were complete but this one is well rusted and weathered.

 

From the prices I keep hearing here it makes me want to rent a truck and head west and grab up a bunch of these things.

 

For some reason, even though no one seems to know who the dealer was for AC here, there's a load of B1 machines here, and they never sell cheap.

Finding one that's not all salt eaten  is another story, most people keep them outdoors and after 50+ years in the weather, one that's not serverely compromised by rust is rare. One that's not just plain worn out is rarer.


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#15 vintageiron OFFLINE  

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Posted October 24, 2014 - 01:36 AM

Its mine now, the seller emailed me back this afternoon and we agreed on a price of $550 for the B1 and another B110 he had there for sale, the B110 runs, has a deck but needs a new battery and probably some carburetor attention. It runs but backfires at idle. It feels like its got good compression. Its also got four mis matched tires on it and a red Craftsman seat on it.  The front end is also pretty loose, the front axle moves almost an inch back and forth when I turn the wheel. I figured that worst case scenerio I'd use the 10hp from the B110 on the B1.

 

I got them both home here just after dark, wanting to know what I had to order for the B1 right away I started tinkering with it, using the B110 for wiring info for the ignition, I fixed some jury rigged wiring to the points, filed and gapped the points, stuck a new spark plug in it, along with a new battery and it fired right up. At the very worst I'm looking at some new wiring to make things permanent.
 

It does need an air cleaner and stud, but I have an oil bath air filter set up from the parts motor that may fit for now. Both are model 19 motors but the carb and air tube are completely different. 

 

I also need a right front wheel dust cap. The gears all work, the belts look good, and the rear lift works fine. The B110 even had a sleeve hitch adapter on it, so I should be able to mount up my Brinly plow and give it a try this weekend. The paint looks like Cat yellow to me, its more mustard colored than the original pain on the B110. The steering on the B1 is a lot quicker than the B110, its also a lot tighter overall, with no play anywhere. The B110 has about 1/8" of play in the bevel gear box if I turn the output shaft, it moves just ever so much before the crank or flywheel on the motor reacts. If I turn the crank, I can't feel that play at all. The B1 has zero end play or backlash. There's a bunch of new looking idlers underneath too, plus the belts all look new. From the sound of it, I was the only one who actually showed up to look at the B1, otherwise I doubt either one of these would have still been there. He's got a chicken coop full of tractors, probably 30 or more AC and Simplicity tractors, plus a few huge red and white Bolens tractors with front bucket loaders, a few older John Deere tractors, and a few Cub Cadets. He did say that the Cub Cadets were sold already though. One of the Cub Cadets had a yellow generator on the front driven by a belt, another had a tiller on the back. There was one older Simplicity that looked a lot like the B1 with a huge saw mounted on the front that was driven by a pully sticking through the grill.


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