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Kohler Twins?


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#16 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted February 09, 2015 - 11:37 PM

.

 


 

so then the Magnum twins aren't that good either, if they are basically a KT with electronic ignition?

 

The Magnums are a lot better than the KT series... I'm not sure what Kohler did... perhaps full pressure lube, better oiling to the crank and rod bearings, etc.

 

Anyway, I wouldn't be afraid to use a Magnum engine in anything... they even have a little longer stroke than the B&S 42X XXX series, so probably a bit more torquey...

 

Smitty



#17 txdieseldog OFFLINE  

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Posted February 11, 2015 - 10:18 AM

I had an M18 opposed lose three cam teeth on me. Just FYI. Not sure what caused it. I broke into it to find out it was the cam and then I was given a Briggs Vanguard V-twin 20HP and the M18 accidentally got left out and rained on. Needless to say it is going to the scrap heap now. Don't have time, effort, or funds to put in it at this point.

 

Barry


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#18 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted February 11, 2015 - 06:10 PM

I had an M18 opposed lose three cam teeth on me. Just FYI. Not sure what caused it. I broke into it to find out it was the cam and then I was given a Briggs Vanguard V-twin 20HP and the M18 accidentally got left out and rained on. Needless to say it is going to the scrap heap now. Don't have time, effort, or funds to put in it at this point.

 

Barry

 

I had an M18 opposed lose three cam teeth on me. Just FYI. Not sure what caused it. I broke into it to find out it was the cam and then I was given a Briggs Vanguard V-twin 20HP and the M18 accidentally got left out and rained on. Needless to say it is going to the scrap heap now. Don't have time, effort, or funds to put in it at this point.

 

Barry

I am talking with a guy via CL about (2) M20's, one he thinks has an issue with the cam.  Do these have plastic cam gears like the Inteks do?   If so then I will be looking for something else to have on hand as a spare for my machine.



#19 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted February 11, 2015 - 07:36 PM

I am talking with a guy via CL about (2) M20's, one he thinks has an issue with the cam.  Do these have plastic cam gears like the Inteks do?   If so then I will be looking for something else to have on hand as a spare for my machine.

Check the manuals section and download the part manual... should be there.  If not, PM me and I'll email you a copy... I'm pretty sure the Magnums used a metal cam.

 

Smitty


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#20 txdieseldog OFFLINE  

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Posted February 11, 2015 - 11:16 PM

I am talking with a guy via CL about (2) M20's, one he thinks has an issue with the cam.  Do these have plastic cam gears like the Inteks do?   If so then I will be looking for something else to have on hand as a spare for my machine.

dodge trucker, I will need to go check. I think it's a cast gear. As I mentioned, not sure what caused mine to give way. I turned it off one day, been so long that I don't recall if it dieseled or anything, next day, crank, crank, crank, nothing. Pulled spark plug and found no compression. Knew something was up at that point. Lubrication system failure, I don't even know. Wish I had more for ya, but when I was given the Vanguard, I asked my local dealer which one he preferred and the Vanguard is the very top of his list. The M18 was pushed aside.


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#21 Tennblue59 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 15, 2015 - 02:01 AM

I know its not exactly what you were asking about, but I thought I would weigh in on this "new engine design/old engine design" issue that seems to keep popping up.

The "old iron" - the onans, magnums, k series iron block singles, etc were definitely built to last, and often to be rebuilt and last longer still. It's amazing, when you look at how many of them are still chugging along after 30+ years of lower grade oil, lack of attention, misuse, etc! They were overbuilt, and expensive to build and rebuild. Add that many of these designs are no longer in production (parts are not readily available or very expensive due to limited production), they were gas hogs (compared to more modern designs), and they required regular maintenance and attention.

Like so many other areas, we have gone to easy production, limited life, throw away motors to replace these old engines. The intecs, vanguards, command series engines, both single and twin are lighter, more fuel efficient, lower maintenance, often smaller, BUT usually throw away after a shorter life span. They are cheaper to build/buy, but take less abuse and are more prone to be "unrepairable" when they do break.

I draw a correlation to the car engines of today vs the engines of the 60s and 70s. love the old motors - I could work on them, rebuild them, etc. BUT none could touch what you can buy in a modern design crate motor - a motor that makes more power on less fuel, and requires less regular maintenance!

Back on topic - I just rebuilt a magnum 18. I got lucky and it didn't need a lot, so the price wasn't too bad. But a full rebuild (with new parts) would have easily cost almost as much as a new twin! Now the new twin may not last as long as a fully rebuilt magnum, but, based on my use, either design will last longer than I will!

Some applications, I rebuild, nurture, restore the old school motor - because it looks right and I like the design, but I realize that it may not be the most logical decision. Other times, for a worker, I want the best I can get for the situation. Case in point, I am replacing the onan in my 316 Deere with a Kubota diesel - and will end up with a much better tool. When my Ford LGT needs a rebuild, it will get a new design twin instead of the k341 in it now - more power, better fuel consumption, less shaking, etc. My round fender Deere 110 will ALWAYS have a k single in it though!

The new engines have been around long enough that there are good deals out there, as long as you can do the transplant yourself. But as always, your tractor, your decision. Just keep it going and have fun!!!
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#22 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted February 16, 2015 - 08:21 AM

I'd rather take my chances with the old designs. I like "heavy duty" /"over built"  You couldn't give me a Honda or a HF anything.

If I somehow can't rebuild the original engine I try to find the same kind of engine in a bigger HP rating.

I'd rather have an old Tecumseh even, than a Predator or a Honduh. feel the same way about brands like Honduh and Toyota cars. You can keep em. I'll keep my 20+ year old trucks.

 

These military engines though do peak my interest. My biggest questions about these pertain to parts availability



#23 3v0 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 16, 2015 - 11:16 AM

This may be an unpopular post because everyone knows KTs are junk.

 

One has to wonder if the KT series II and magnums have gotten a overly bum rap because of the problems with the KT series I.    There are going to be some failures with any engine design and every time someone sees a bad KT or Magnum they feed the fire.  They built a lot of these engines so we see a proportionally larger number of dead ones.

 

Now I am not saying they are great engines.  But maybe not so bad as 'net think' makes them out to be.

 

I recently aquired a neglected CC/IH 682 with a series II.  Some of the 82's came with a remotely mounted oil filter. This one had no filter.  Rather than run hoses I added the oil filter adapter plate from a magnum.   I still have to do some fab work to make the engine tin fit yet but I feel a bit better with a filter in place.   I hope the engine does too.


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#24 Pager450n OFFLINE  

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Posted February 16, 2015 - 02:03 PM

I'd rather take my chances with the old designs. I like "heavy duty" /"over built"  You couldn't give me a Honda or a HF anything.

If I somehow can't rebuild the original engine I try to find the same kind of engine in a bigger HP rating.

I'd rather have an old Tecumseh even, than a Predator or a Honduh. feel the same way about brands like Honduh and Toyota cars. You can keep em. I'll keep my 20+ year old trucks.

 

These military engines though do peak my interest. My biggest questions about these pertain to parts availability

 

I currently have a 4ao32 sitting on my garage floor.  I picked it up, hoping to put in something....maybe a small airboat not sure.  Point being, I checked on ebay and there are tons of parts for both this engine and its larger sister the 82.  There is a lot of army surplus being sold in lots and if you can get the right engine, then parts will be around for a while, MHO. 

 

Plus the 4ao03 is a 4 cyl similar to a lycoming aircraft engine.  Looks awesome witghout its shrouds, and with a 6:1 compression ratio, I can throw on a larger carb and turbo to boost it up to at least 10 psi if not 15psi.

 

 

This may be an unpopular post because everyone knows KTs are junk.

 

One has to wonder if the KT series II and magnums have gotten a overly bum rap because of the problems with the KT series I.    There are going to be some failures with any engine design and every time someone sees a bad KT or Magnum they feed the fire.  They built a lot of these engines so we see a proportionally larger number of dead ones.

 

Now I am not saying they are great engines.  But maybe not so bad as 'net think' makes them out to be.

 

I recently aquired a neglected CC/IH 682 with a series II.  Some of the 82's came with a remotely mounted oil filter. This one had no filter.  Rather than run hoses I added the oil filter adapter plate from a magnum.   I still have to do some fab work to make the engine tin fit yet but I feel a bit better with a filter in place.   I hope the engine does too.

  Those KT series are not the best to deal with when rebuilding and finding parts.  I have rebuilt some 17, series 1 and 2.  I also rebuilt a k532 that was in my 400.  Id be more worried about finding parts for the larger Kohlers (482,532 and 582)  expecially the connecting rods and cranks.

 

Just glad im running diesel now :thumbs:



#25 Pager450n OFFLINE  

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Posted February 16, 2015 - 02:07 PM

Some applications, I rebuild, nurture, restore the old school motor - because it looks right and I like the design, but I realize that it may not be the most logical decision. Other times, for a worker, I want the best I can get for the situation. Case in point, I am replacing the onan in my 316 Deere with a Kubota diesel - and will end up with a much better tool. When my Ford LGT needs a rebuild, it will get a new design twin instead of the k341 in it now - more power, better fuel consumption, less shaking, etc. My round fender Deere 110 will ALWAYS have a k single in it though!

The new engines have been around long enough that there are good deals out there, as long as you can do the transplant yourself. But as always, your tractor, your decision. Just keep it going and have fun!!!

 

 

Very true.  If your up for a by the book, make it look new restore, then a rebuild is in order.  I did that on my 400.  That kohler purred after but still cost a lot of money that later I could have used with my diesel repower.


Edited by Pager450n, February 16, 2015 - 02:08 PM.


#26 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted February 16, 2015 - 02:19 PM

I recently aquired a neglected CC/IH 682 with a series II.  Some of the 82's came with a remotely mounted oil filter. This one had no filter.  Rather than run hoses I added the oil filter adapter plate from a magnum.  

I did not know that could be done to the KT's.  I had heard that the presence of a filter that could be changed, was the main difference between a Series II and a Magnum.

 

also/

I have seen KT 17s and KT 19s, and have heard of a KT 21 though I have never seen one of those



#27 3v0 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2015 - 05:33 AM

I did not know that could be done to the KT's.  I had heard that the presence of a filter that could be changed, was the main difference between a Series II and a Magnum.

 

also/

I have seen KT 17s and KT 19s, and have heard of a KT 21 though I have never seen one of those

Blockoff plate and filter adapter images  Blockoff plate image from Yesterday's Tractor Forum.
KT17 Series II Blockoff  Plate.
 
Magnum Filter adapter

Edited by 3v0, February 17, 2015 - 05:37 AM.

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#28 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2015 - 10:21 PM

dunno if it would be any help "now" with an engine that already shows 1790 hours on the meter... food for thought if I do a rebuild eventually...



#29 3v0 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 18, 2015 - 01:58 PM

dunno if it would be any help "now" with an engine that already shows 1790 hours on the meter... food for thought if I do a rebuild eventually...

My thinking is that if the engine has any life left in it then the filter will extend that somewhat by slowing wear. 


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#30 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted February 22, 2015 - 08:25 PM

just did a little more playing with the KT 19.  I put the new fuel pump that I got from Feebay onto it, just peeled back enough shrouding to get to the mount screws. The old one (original I'm guessing) was leaking gas between the 2 halves of the pump, diaphragm must be shot.   I found a brand new in the box (but still probably as old as my KT 19) ACDelco replacement, it is mechanical like the original but is metal and at least twice as heavy in my hand as the old plastic pump. 

In the process of changing that pump, I saw where they buried the starter and see why it is said that the motor has to be pulled to work on the starter/ something this unit definitely needs, as it sometimes spins but doesn't engage.... I watched it work while I had the head side shroud pulled away and (w/o the engine being allowed to start)  the bendix would stay engaged with the ring gear, and when that happened, the starter would spin within the starter gear w/o turning the gear. about 25% of the time... rest of time it turns over the engine fine still.

 

One thing for sure/ that motor is filthy under that shrouding, I went thru 2 cans of brake clean, and what could pass thru the shrouding did so,  but a lot could not.... I see engine removal in the not too distant future for shroud removal, degrease, and starter repair.  the motor seems to run strong with no noise even with all the hours it has on it  I hope it continues to do so after I do all of that, I am still on the hunt for a 20HP Magnum for an eventual repower.






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