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Winter Questions: Oil And Nitrogen

winter oil detergent nitrogen

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#1 aevansgatech OFFLINE  

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Posted October 01, 2014 - 07:04 AM

I have a couple questions regarding winter operation of a garden tractor

 

First off, Oil: The owners manual (Ford YT 16H) recommends SAE 30 for summer and 5W-30 for winter. That's fine, but I've also ready it's preferrable to use non-detergent oil on older motors. I can only find SAE 30 non-detergent, so my question is which to use in winter: SAE30 non-detergent OR a modern 5W-30 oil?

 

Second, nitrogen: Most people recommend wheel weights and tire chains for operation in the snow. I've found the wheel weights to be fairly expensive, so what about the option to fill the tires with nitrogen? Anyone have experience with that? How much $ is it to fill 4 typical tractor tires with Nitrogen and where can I get that done?

 

My current plan is to do an oil change with 5W-30, fill the tires with N, and find a set of tire chains. Any feedback or advice would help!


Edited by aevansgatech, October 01, 2014 - 01:56 PM.


#2 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted October 01, 2014 - 07:26 AM

I don't think I've ever heard of using liquid nitrogen in tires. The nitrogen they are using to fill tires with is just a gas. There is a product called rim guard that is good for filling tires and not rotting the rims like calcium. Prices seem to vary by region so it would be best to call a local tire shop and ask them. Try one that deals in farm tires.

 

As for oil, if you have been using non-detergent, I wouldn't use the 5W-30 unless I removed the sump and cleaned it out good. Does this engine have an oil filter? I don't believe they make a multigrade oil in non detergent but you might find a 20W in non detergent that would be a little better than the 30W.


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#3 aevansgatech OFFLINE  

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Posted October 01, 2014 - 08:32 AM

I was probably mistaken on the Nitrogen. I read an article about filling the tires with an antifreeze/water mixture, but don't want to do that. If I can fill them with Nitrogen gas and gain some weight that way, it could work.

 

Unfortunately, I don't know what oil is in it right now. All I know is it's at the right level and looks clean/fresh. My concern is getting a cold-weather appropriate oil for the Michigan winter, so would the non detergent SEA30 work ok in freezing temps?



#4 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted October 01, 2014 - 09:16 AM

The gas isn't going to add weight. It's supposed to be more stable pressure wise and make the tires last longer than regular air. you can find info on the rim guard product here:  http://www.rimguard.biz/  I have never used it but from what I hear its the best thing going for weight.

 

If the tractor is in a heated garage and you let it warm up good before taking out, you can probably get by with the 30W. If the manual doesn't say non detergent, chances might be good that it has regular detergent oil in it now. Non detergent is harder to find and it seems a lot of mfg's are getting away from it. If the engine uses a filter, you shouldn't even consider non detergent.


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#5 cpg OFFLINE  

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Posted October 01, 2014 - 09:55 AM

A lot of my older engines that are rated or SAE 30 recommend SAE 10 or 20 in winter. If its in a garage I would try SAE 20; it will just take some warm up time and really the winter advantage to the multi-weight oil is easier cold starting as the oil isn't a thick at cold temps so I would try SAE 20 if you want non-detergent and make sure you have a good starter/battery. Tractor supply carries SAE 10, 20, and 30 as I actually have to buy SAE 10 for the hydraulics on my old Farmall. I would personally say go for the 5w30. I have run both in these engines and if your engine is an older style flat head it has a pretty simple oiling system anyway; I doubt the manufacturer would recommend an oil combo that would do engine damage. If you want just change to 5w30 detergent; run for a while and do an oil change to get rid of impurities it pulls out. In the future I would personally just say keep running 5w30 or you could even switch to 10w30 for summer so you don't have to worry about crossing between the oil types.

 

As far as weight goes the easiest traction in my opinion is just a set of chains and then bolt some old barbell/lifting weights or any steel you have around to the back. Usually a really cheap way to add just as much weight as wheel weights or as loading the tires.


Edited by cpg, October 01, 2014 - 09:58 AM.

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#6 aevansgatech OFFLINE  

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Posted October 01, 2014 - 09:57 AM

Thanks Doug,

 

Sounds like rimguard is exactly what I'm looking for, a liquid ballast that can help me improve traction in snow without needing to buy wheel weights.

 

It does have a filter, so I'm going to go with a typical 5W-30 for winter per the manual.

 

THanks again!
Andrew



#7 JD DANNELS OFFLINE  

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Posted October 01, 2014 - 10:14 AM

this is just my opinion but non detergent oils were advised back in the days when we ran oils that were not nearly as good as we run now. The idea was that with dipper oiled lower rod bearings the crank would and did cause the detergent oils to foam and starve bearings. I use no non detergent oil in any thing I own. I see no reason to do, so

As for the nitrogen , Like Doug said nitrogen will not add weight. Some forms of racing uses nitrogen because it is not nearly as temp. sensitive and does not change final gear ratio due to tire circumference changes.
My nephew uses nitrogen in his Rock Crawler tires, but is only running 4 lbs pressure and runs beadlocks to keep the tires on the rim.
The super low pressure allows the tires to conform to the contour of the obstacle he is crawling over.
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#8 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted October 01, 2014 - 10:40 AM

Another alternative for oil is Amsoil 30w/10w30 synthetic which is designed for small engine applications calling for 30 or 10w30. Since it's synthetic it doesn't thicken up at low temps and should give you good performance year round.


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#9 Tim Bergfeld OFFLINE  

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Posted October 01, 2014 - 10:49 AM

The liquid they are putting in them is calcium chloride it comes in a powder form and you're gonna want to use a mix ratio 29.8%. That will take care of your tractor down to about negative 60 degrees. As for the oil go with the lighter weight oil it won't be ran long enough to clean out the block and unless it was a total neglect it should be ok. Now if your garage is attached to the house and it is half way warm stick her nose out let her warm up good and then go play


Tim

#10 Cat385B ONLINE  

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Posted October 01, 2014 - 10:57 AM

The liquid they are putting in them is calcium chloride it comes in a powder form and you're gonna want to use a mix ratio 29.8%.
Tim

Being pro metal and anti rust, I get nervous if someone knows how to properly spell that, let alone advises it's use. I've had to scrap rims because of that crap.

Calcium chloride causes rust. It is, however, a heavy and cost effective (cheap) weight.

I use windshield washer fluid for tire ballast, the winter stuff that is good to -35.

If you go to rimguard.com, they have a dealer locator I think.
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#11 aevansgatech OFFLINE  

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Posted October 01, 2014 - 11:54 AM

I'm definitely not on board with the calcium chloride either, Cat. Seems my options are finding wheel weights, using rimguard/washer fluid fill or rigging up some external weight somehow



#12 LilysDad OFFLINE  

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Posted October 01, 2014 - 12:20 PM

I'm pretty sure if you put liquid nitrogen in a tire the rubber will become very brittle and when the temp rises to -65 degrees it will shatter.


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#13 Tim Bergfeld OFFLINE  

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Posted October 01, 2014 - 02:02 PM

I never said it was the best answer he was asking about weight I use Propylene Glycol Antifreeze but it is very costly and weighs less than the Cacl2 and it won't hurt the environment like windshield washer but that's just me so that being said you want heavy containment tubes and CACl2 11.5 pounds per gallon you want safe Propylene Glycol Antifreeze/ RV ANTIFREEZE biodegradable and 9.388 pounds at around 60 deg I know I am a chemistry freak lol had my phd at 20 lol


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#14 Tim Bergfeld OFFLINE  

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Posted October 01, 2014 - 02:19 PM

Oh and before I forget lol. Liquid nitrogen as opposed to oxygen in your tractor tires would make them shatter and n2 versus O2 well yes n2 molecules are larger than O2 by one trillionth of a meter that is 1 m / 1,000,000,000,000 and the weight they tell you it will save you on your average car tire is about 1 gram so it is all just a sales pitch to get you to buy an add on so there you have it the rest of the story lol.


Tim
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#15 propane1 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 01, 2014 - 04:11 PM

5-30 oil is good, just check the oil before every use.  winter washer fluid is what i put in one of my tractors tires. your tires may hold 6 or more gallons at 8 to 10 lb per gallon.   Noel







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