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1969 Jacobsen Hydro Super Chief 1200


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#1 Sean0308 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 09, 2014 - 07:24 PM

Hi I have a 1969 Jacobsen Hydro Super Chief 1200.  It has a Kohler K301 engine. I cannot get it to start. I have changed the battery the condenser the points the Spark Plug and the coil. I pulled the plug out and put it on the metal and bolt cranked it the engine turns but I get no spark. I have tested through wiring diagrams and everything checks out. I ohm out the neutral switch and the meter beeped as soon as I connected both leads and it showed resistance. Their is not a seat switch. At this point I cant figure out what it could be. The engine cranks but does not start and it has no spark. Any suggestions. It is getting fuel I cleaned the tank and changed the hose out. it flows like it should. It also is sending fuel to the carburetor I checked just to make sure. Thanks.


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#2 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted August 09, 2014 - 07:31 PM

Welcome to the forum. Is this a battery ignition with an external coil or magneto ignition with an internal coil?



#3 trowel OFFLINE  

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Posted August 09, 2014 - 07:33 PM

Welcome to the fourm Sean, is this external coil or under the flywheel.



#4 Sean0308 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 09, 2014 - 07:34 PM

battery ignition with an external coil and Napa sold me a Magneto coil which I think is my problem but I am not sure.



#5 trowel OFFLINE  

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Posted August 09, 2014 - 07:46 PM

Just in case here is a wiring diagram for you to view show a typical set up your Jake should have.

 

When you pulled the oil points did the contact tips look burnt or pitted ?

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#6 sacsr OFFLINE  

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Posted August 09, 2014 - 07:47 PM

Welcome to the forum! I am not the expert, but these guys are and will help get you up and running in no time! Look forward to seeing a picture of that Jake!

#7 Sean0308 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 09, 2014 - 07:50 PM

Here are some pics this is the top of the motor.

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#8 Sean0308 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 09, 2014 - 07:53 PM

The points were burnt so I replaced it and gaped it to .020 is what it calls for. It actually burnt the strip where the wire connects to the screw and melted it. Thanks.



#9 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted August 09, 2014 - 07:57 PM

Have you checked for battery voltage at the coil positive post? Also, new points have a film on them. Try cleaning them with brake cleaner and a clean white business card or crisp bill. There are 2 different styles of the external coil. One has an internal resistor and the other requires an external resistor similar to an old Chrysler ballast resistor. Not having a resistored coil will burn things up.



#10 trowel OFFLINE  

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Posted August 09, 2014 - 08:04 PM

The points were burnt so I replaced it and gaped it to .020 is what it calls for. It actually burnt the strip where the wire connects to the screw and melted it. Thanks.

Doug's advice is good, i would follow it, it also sounds like the coil fried the points, as Doug stated a resister is needed.



#11 Sean0308 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 09, 2014 - 08:04 PM

I accidently connected the point to the positive side of the condenser and it lit it up that is when I changed the new coil. I put a new point on connected it to the negative side and gaped it. That's why it burnt up. I will recheck he voltage to the coil tomorrow to see what happens. I had this no spark problem before I changed everything out. I will also try what you said with the brake fluid. Thanks.

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#12 trowel OFFLINE  

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Posted August 09, 2014 - 08:08 PM

It happens, more then many would like to say.

 

The back fire may have fried the contacts in the key switch, if you still do not have any fire, pull the switch and connect the wires from the coil to the battery as shown in the diagram and see if there is fire at the points.



#13 Sean0308 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 10, 2014 - 08:52 AM

Hi Trowel do you have a bigger picture of the diagram if not that is fine. If I take the switch out what do I do with those wires that were connected to that switch. Thanks.

#14 trowel OFFLINE  

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Posted August 10, 2014 - 09:01 AM

Morning Sean,

 

Sorry about the small picture, here is the picture much bigger below.

 

When i test these things i use a cheap toggle switch or just twist the wire together, the wires become live, be careful as not to let it touch anything metal as it will fry everything again, matter of fact tape it together, this is just a quick test bypassing the switch, if you have fire at the points when cranking, replace the switch, if not then it is something else.

 

Remember to clean the points and check for volts at the coil as Doug said.

 

Best of luck.

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#15 Oldford OFFLINE  

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Posted August 10, 2014 - 10:32 AM

I accidently connected the point to the positive side of the condenser and it lit it up that is when I changed the new coil. I put a new point on connected it to the negative side and gaped it. That's why it burnt up. I will recheck he voltage to the coil tomorrow to see what happens. I had this no spark problem before I changed everything out. I will also try what you said with the brake fluid. Thanks.

 

1. Welcome to gtt, hang in there, you can figure this out.

2. You're already getting help from people who know more about the complex part of wiring problems than me, however i can point out a couple simple things to maybe keep you from getting too frustrated.

         a) where i bolded above must be a typo on your part...?... there is no "positive side of the condensor," you meant to say "coil," right...?     ...just trying to make sure you're getting everything hooked up right.

 

         b)  an easy way to test the ignition circuit is go straight to the points.  Turn the key on but don't spin the starter.  open the points by hand or with a screwdriver and you should see a spark at the contacts.  If no spark, the problem is behind the points, key switch, wire, etc.  If the points spark but not the spark plug while cranking, then you know the problem is after the points somewhere, coil, wire, plug wire, etc.

 

        ... or it could be the points just need cleaned before they will spark.  Also if the spark at the points is real weak, like barely can see it/faint yellow, the condensor could be bad.  Also a really old fouled out spark plug can show weak/no spark but that doesn't sound like the problem. 

 

 3.  Why did you start digging into this to start with, what is the history of the machine, did you ever see it run, if so, what happened to kill it?   good luck, hang in there


Edited by Oldford, August 10, 2014 - 10:41 AM.

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