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3410 Generator Light On?


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#1 makeitfit OFFLINE  

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Posted July 23, 2014 - 08:13 PM

About a week ago I picked up another 3410S. The story was that it came from some old guy's estate and it had been sitting for decades in an old chicken coop. The battery was 70's vintage, the tires all still have little nipples on them although their pretty well dryrotted.
The price was right so it came home with me. I gave $100 for the tractor, mower deck, rear tiller, snow plow, chains, four wheel weights, and a JD cart.

 

The first thing I did was change the fluids, pump up the tires and dropped in a new battery.

The fuel tank was clean and dry, the fuel line was off at the carb and both were plugged. I replaced the fuel hose, filter, and filled the tank.
The first issue was that the starter solenoid won't make the connection, it clicks but no voltage passes through the battery cables, so I replaced the solenoid with a good used one I had.
To my surprise, it fired right up, it barely made a full revolution and it was running, and running good at that. It'll idle down to almost nothing as well.

 

From the very start, the GEN light on the dash was on and never goes out. The battery seems to be charging, I get 12.56v with the engine off, and 12.91 running, yet the light is always on.

This model doesn't have an ammeter, just the idiot light.

The wiring looks decent, nothing looks chewed but on start up it did blow a half pound of acorns out of the muffler and fan shroud. (I did pull back the shroud and vacuumed out the rodent debris).

Does anyone have a diagram for the wiring for the GEN light circuit? Is there a quick test to check the condition of the generator or regulator?


Edited by makeitfit, July 23, 2014 - 09:01 PM.


#2 Cat385B ONLINE  

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Posted July 23, 2014 - 08:53 PM

How is the play on the gen's pulley and how does the belt look?

There should be a Homelite T10 manual in the manual section if there isn't a Simp manual.
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#3 makeitfit OFFLINE  

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Posted July 23, 2014 - 09:06 PM

The belt and pulley are good. I sort of expect it to be something related to it having sat idle for so long.

I cleaned all the contacts an connections but no change.

 

I didn't see a manual?

 

I have a diagram for one with an ammeter but not a gen light.


Edited by makeitfit, July 23, 2014 - 09:16 PM.


#4 Rock farmer ONLINE  

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Posted July 23, 2014 - 09:18 PM

I don't know how those lights work.
But, if the voltage is low the light comes on.
So, maybe when the voltage is right, a contact opens to shut the light off.
I would suspect you have stuck contacts in the light circuit.
Or, a defective idiot light.

Joe
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#5 Cat385B ONLINE  

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Posted July 23, 2014 - 09:34 PM

Let's see if this works, page 8. I can only find the parts diagram.

http://bsintek.basco...Gh5.bp796Dq.pdf
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#6 yardiron OFFLINE  

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Posted July 23, 2014 - 10:41 PM

The Homelite parts manual is close. Make sure the ignition switch terminals are clean and the same for the circuit breaker. The Gen light has two wires, one is grounded, the other goes to the ignition switch. I'm thinking that the Voltage regulator controls the light. Maybe a stuck or bad connection inside the VR from sitting? Maybe an issue with the S/G? It's charging but not as much as I'd expect. SInce the battery is new and all the contacts are clean. Maybe there's a way to test to see if the S/G is capable of full output or not?


Edited by yardiron, July 25, 2014 - 01:36 AM.

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#7 skunkhome OFFLINE  

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Posted July 23, 2014 - 11:31 PM

You need to do a diagnostic on the S/G. I'll look and see if I still have that somewhere. Since it is charging some I would suspect that the mechanical regulator that is on the right hand sidewall behind the battery is the problem. It has three sets of points and one of them is likely stuck or corroded. The idiot light will normally glow dimly at idle and go out as you increase Rpm.
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#8 yardiron OFFLINE  

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Posted July 24, 2014 - 01:42 AM

You need to do a diagnostic on the S/G. I'll look and see if I still have that somewhere. Since it is charging some I would suspect that the mechanical regulator that is on the right hand sidewall behind the battery is the problem. It has three sets of points and one of them is likely stuck or corroded. The idiot light will normally glow dimly at idle and go out as you increase Rpm.

 

A stuck mechanical regulator makes the most sense to me too. The fact that it sat in a chicken coop with open windows and such for all those years makes me think that its either dirt, corrosion, or rodent damage that's at fault here.  I've got four 3410's here and all have rusted out seat pans and fairly major rust beneath the battery either on the frame or dash tower. Only one is without an ammeter and its the only shuttle drive model.

 

I suppose you could swap out the S/G or regulator off another machine but myself, I'd rather not mess with one that's not broke if I don't have to, that's up to you.


Edited by yardiron, July 25, 2014 - 01:39 AM.

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#9 boyscout862 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 24, 2014 - 05:32 AM

The running voltage should be at minimum 13.2v. The voltage circuit points in the regulator are probably corroded. That type regulator is serviceable. In the Manuals Section is directions for servicing those regulators(I used it last fall) but I don't remember where. Congrats on a nice machine. I'm struggling with my 3310s' varidrive. Good Luck, Rick


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#10 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted July 24, 2014 - 07:33 AM

Congrats on the new tractor. 12.9v seems low to me. It may be charging but only at a very low current. I'd go through the entire charging circuit and look for bad connections. That s/g could probably do with a good checkout as well.


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#11 skunkhome OFFLINE  

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Posted July 24, 2014 - 09:23 PM

Try out this publication:
http://www.thepowerp...SV_SMA_Sec3.pdf

Edited by skunkhome, July 24, 2014 - 09:35 PM.

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#12 yardiron OFFLINE  

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Posted July 25, 2014 - 12:54 AM

I went round after round with my 3410 to get it to charge, it turned out to be a bad ammeter, I bypassed the ammeter and all has been fine since. Maybe the GEN light can cause the same issues?


Edited by yardiron, July 25, 2014 - 01:30 AM.

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#13 makeitfit OFFLINE  

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Posted July 25, 2014 - 01:33 AM

Well, after about 3 hours of tracing wires, checking continuity, removing and cleaning the regulator I got it working.
I first figured out that if I grounded the Field terminal on the S/G it will charge all out, and in doing that I got 15.6v.

I then figured it had to be either wiring or a bad regulator. I pulled the VR, checked and cleaned all the contacts and traced all the wires.

I figured out that the GEN light connects to the fourth/odd pin on the ignition switch, and the other wire is grounded.

The circuit breaker is between the ignition switch middle terminal and the small wire on the starter solenoid which has battery power full time.

After giving it some thought, I couldn't figure how on earth the regulator, which is rubber mounted could ever ground the field coil to make electricity.

So I clipped on a ground cable from the base of the regulator to the frame and it started charging instantly at 14.2V. I made up a piece of ground cable and drilled a hole in the edge of the VR and grounded it to the tractor frame. Now it puts out about 13.4V at idle, and about 14.2V at WOT.

 

Thanks for the manual link, I knew there had to be a real shop manual out there somewhere for these things. Although I found it after I got done and came inside tonight, the link will come in handy in the future.

This model came with the newer style all plastic, smaller starter solenoid, the one I put on it was off a slightly older 3410, which had the larger all metal solenoid. What I noticed is that the hood will touch the starter side terminal just slightly, and it rests on the small starter lead stud on top. I had to bend the bracket downward about 1/4" to give it adequate clearance. The older model has the same brackets on the head but somehow has more hood clearance? The hood looks identical?

Now with it charging properly I'll be adding some headlights, getting around after dark outback using a flashlight to see where your going just don't cut it.

I noticed in the one Homelite parts manual that they used two single round headlights while the Simplicity version had those four small projector type headlights.
Did Simplicity ever use the larger round headlights on a 3400 series machine?


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#14 Cat385B ONLINE  

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Posted July 25, 2014 - 04:06 AM

The Allis built ones were he only ones with the large headlights.

#15 skunkhome OFFLINE  

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Posted July 26, 2014 - 07:59 PM

Well, after about 3 hours of tracing wires, checking continuity, removing and cleaning the regulator I got it working.
I first figured out that if I grounded the Field terminal on the S/G it will charge all out, and in doing that I got 15.6v.
I then figured it had to be either wiring or a bad regulator. I pulled the VR, checked and cleaned all the contacts and traced all the wires.
I figured out that the GEN light connects to the fourth/odd pin on the ignition switch, and the other wire is grounded.
The circuit breaker is between the ignition switch middle terminal and the small wire on the starter solenoid which has battery power full time.
After giving it some thought, I couldn't figure how on earth the regulator, which is rubber mounted could ever ground the field coil to make electricity.
So I clipped on a ground cable from the base of the regulator to the frame and it started charging instantly at 14.2V. I made up a piece of ground cable and drilled a hole in the edge of the VR and grounded it to the tractor frame. Now it puts out about 13.4V at idle, and about 14.2V at WOT.
 
Thanks for the manual link, I knew there had to be a real shop manual out there somewhere for these things. Although I found it after I got done and came inside tonight, the link will come in handy in the future.
This model came with the newer style all plastic, smaller starter solenoid, the one I put on it was off a slightly older 3410, which had the larger all metal solenoid. What I noticed is that the hood will touch the starter side terminal just slightly, and it rests on the small starter lead stud on top. I had to bend the bracket downward about 1/4" to give it adequate clearance. The older model has the same brackets on the head but somehow has more hood clearance? The hood looks identical?

Now with it charging properly I'll be adding some headlights, getting around after dark outback using a flashlight to see where your going just don't cut it.
I noticed in the one Homelite parts manual that they used two single round headlights while the Simplicity version had those four small projector type headlights.
Did Simplicity ever use the larger round headlights on a 3400 series machine?

if you don't want the old pod lights put them on eBay as they can command a high price tag.




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