Jump to content

Nominations for Tractor of the Month
Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
- - - - -

Hydraulic Cylinder Cross Referencing?


  • Please log in to reply
27 replies to this topic

#16 gtcsreg OFFLINE  

gtcsreg
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 25875
  • 1,665 Thanks
  • 1,646 posts
  • Location: Winchester, IL

Posted June 19, 2015 - 08:03 PM

This is a 3-point lift cylinder? On the back side of a Massey? That may just be the ticket! But you will have to redo your mount to fit it!

Yes and yes.  Trying very hard to find a drop in.



#17 coldone OFFLINE  

coldone

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 839
  • 1,631 Thanks
  • 1,668 posts
  • Location: Central NC

Posted June 19, 2015 - 08:30 PM

Could this rephasing cylinder be used?

 

http://www.surplusce...-CYL-9-7478.axd


  • gtcsreg said thank you

#18 gtcsreg OFFLINE  

gtcsreg
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 25875
  • 1,665 Thanks
  • 1,646 posts
  • Location: Winchester, IL

Posted June 19, 2015 - 09:49 PM

Could this rephasing cylinder be used?

 

http://www.surplusce...-CYL-9-7478.axd

Thanks for the input but it looks nothing like the photos above.  Not sure how this one mounts.



#19 Dayton_King ONLINE  

Dayton_King
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 68926
  • 619 Thanks
  • 692 posts
  • Location: Atlanta Georgia

Posted June 19, 2015 - 10:08 PM

I might be parting out a 1855 soon. I will let you know by Wednesday. I might have one.
  • gtcsreg said thank you

#20 TUDOR OFFLINE  

TUDOR

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 915
  • 543 Thanks
  • 497 posts
  • Location: Sault Ste Marie, Ontario

Posted June 20, 2015 - 02:26 AM

Sure is genius!  Thanks Bob!    I have a couple rough shafts on JB Bush Hogs, but shock absorbers may not have long enough shafting.....but I'll find out!

 

MacPherson struts are longer than the shocks on regular pickup trucks

All the old scrap yards I used to go to as a kid dried up along time ago.  Scrap iron prices drove them to liquidate a few years back.  I'd buy a new shock if needed but I'd really prefer finding a new suitable replacement.  Since I went back to work and took on deacon responsibility at church I've had very little free time for the projects I'd like to do.  Thanks for the option and your time though.

 

Reg

Check the scrap bins at Midas and other shops. Farm out the threading and grinding to a machine shop.

 

Machine shops can also get the chrome plated rod stock, but that stuff does not come cheap. Likewise, they can machine a new rod from superior ground shafting of the correct diameter, then send it out for the chrome plating.

 

http://www.surplusce...IS-9-7716-4.axd     Very confused. Not exact but wonder if it would work.  Can't just throw money at this unless I'm pretty certain.  Anyone used this for their 1650 3 pt.?

 

There are several reasons why that it is not a viable alternative.

 

- Too long for the available space.

- Too large in diameter for the available space.

- Base end pin hole is much too large.

- Rod end clevis must be removed and the rod threaded for the original clevis. 

- Area of the piston is 56% larger than the original which will exert 3141 lb of force at the max pressure available from a Sundstrand.

 

Max rated load for the 3PH on a Peerless 2500 final drive is 400 lb. The existing cylinder is capable of exceeding that by a small margin at 700 psi. A 56% increase in available force is going to cause damage if used. Does anyone know of any operator who will not try out that capability at some point? Be honest now!

 

Yes, the original cylinder does its work retracting. The percentages apply the same, about 17% less pulling force than pushing force.


  • gtcsreg said thank you

#21 coldone OFFLINE  

coldone

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 839
  • 1,631 Thanks
  • 1,668 posts
  • Location: Central NC

Posted June 20, 2015 - 07:05 AM

Thanks for the input but it looks nothing like the photos above.  Not sure how this one mounts.

 

The bottom (non rod) has a bolt hole. Build an adapter plate for the 3/8 pin and bolt onto the bottom. Notch out the tube end to get your clevis end and then bush it to get the 3/8 hole.  


  • gtcsreg said thank you

#22 gtcsreg OFFLINE  

gtcsreg
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 25875
  • 1,665 Thanks
  • 1,646 posts
  • Location: Winchester, IL

Posted June 20, 2015 - 07:56 AM

I might be parting out a 1855 soon. I will let you know by Wednesday. I might have one.

Let me know, I would like to talk to you about it.



#23 ENafziger OFFLINE  

ENafziger
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 45112
  • 254 Thanks
  • 254 posts
  • Location: Knoxville, TN

Posted June 22, 2015 - 04:34 PM

MacPherson struts are longer than the shocks on regular pickup trucks

Check the scrap bins at Midas and other shops. Farm out the threading and grinding to a machine shop.

 

Machine shops can also get the chrome plated rod stock, but that stuff does not come cheap. Likewise, they can machine a new rod from superior ground shafting of the correct diameter, then send it out for the chrome plating.

 

Tudor/others,  I don't know how to quote entire post, but the part I'm wondering about is this:

 

Area of the piston is 56% larger than the original which will exert 3141 lb of force at the max pressure available from a Sundstrand.

 

Max rated load for the 3PH on a Peerless 2500 final drive is 400 lb. The existing cylinder is capable of exceeding that by a small margin at 700 psi. A 56% increase in available force is going to cause damage if used. Does anyone know of any operator who will not try out that capability at some point?

 

Is this correct?  Does the increasing the rod/piston diameter increase the lifting capability of the cylinder?  I thought it was just a function of pressure and bore...am I wrong? 

 

I would love to have a cylinder that would lift more than the rated 400.  I can strengthen the lift arms, etc if needed.

 

Thanks, Eric


  • gtcsreg said thank you

#24 TUDOR OFFLINE  

TUDOR

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 915
  • 543 Thanks
  • 497 posts
  • Location: Sault Ste Marie, Ontario

Posted June 22, 2015 - 10:58 PM

Tudor/others,  I don't know how to quote entire post, but the part I'm wondering about is this:

 

Click on the Quote button at the bottom of the post, then highlight and delete (Backspace key) those parts of the post that you don't want.

Area of the piston is 56% larger than the original which will exert 3141 lb of force at the max pressure available from a Sundstrand.

 

Max rated load for the 3PH on a Peerless 2500 final drive is 400 lb. The existing cylinder is capable of exceeding that by a small margin at 700 psi. A 56% increase in available force is going to cause damage if used. Does anyone know of any operator who will not try out that capability at some point?

 

 

Is this correct?  Does the increasing the rod/piston diameter increase the lifting capability of the cylinder?  I thought it was just a function of pressure and bore...am I wrong? 

 

I would love to have a cylinder that would lift more than the rated 400.  I can strengthen the lift arms, etc if needed.

 

Thanks, Eric

You are correct.

 

Piston diameter is the bore diameter minus a few thou that is taken up by the seals for clearance. Multiplying the resulting area by the pressure generates the force that can be applied. The area of the rod diameter reduces the effective area of the piston when calculating the force available when retracting the cylinder by about 17%, more or less.

 

2" bore = 3.14 sq-in, or 3,141lb of pushing force at 1000 psi.

 

2.5" bore = 4.91 sq-in, or 4,908 lb of pushing force at 1000 psi.

 

Massey Ferguson designed the arms. That's not the problem. Peerless designed the final drive and applied the max 3PH  lift rating. THAT's the problem. Besides the risk to the lugs on the axle that support the 3PH load as the tractor bumps along on rough terrain, there is also the effective load on the axle. A 400 lb load behind the axle will be countered by an equal load from in front of the axle, along with the tractor load (500 lb+) normally carried by the axle, and the weight of the operator, for a total of 1500 lb+, assuming a 200 lb operator.

 

Peerless rates the 2500 at 1500 lb max static load. That doesn't leave a whole lot of wiggle room for a higher 3PH load. For every extra 100 lb of 3PH load beyond the rated 400 lb, the load on the rear axle increases by 200 lb.

 

If you really want to lift heavier loads, get a front end loader for these heavy GT's. Front axles are a lot cheaper and easier to replace or repair than rear axles, and the front axle on a MF1655 will take a BIG load . . . after the spindles have been reattached and welded more securely to the ends of the axle tube.


Edited by TUDOR, June 22, 2015 - 11:08 PM.

  • ENafziger said thank you

#25 Alc ONLINE  

Alc

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1094
  • 5,447 Thanks
  • 6,612 posts
  • Location: Bangor Pa

Posted June 23, 2015 - 05:21 AM

I was just wondering , does this tractor use the rod side to lift the 3pt ( lifts as it retracts )  ?  Is that why the rod is so small , giving it more surface area on the piston .


  • gtcsreg said thank you

#26 gtcsreg OFFLINE  

gtcsreg
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 25875
  • 1,665 Thanks
  • 1,646 posts
  • Location: Winchester, IL

Posted June 23, 2015 - 08:17 AM

I was just wondering , does this tractor use the rod side to lift the 3pt ( lifts as it retracts )  ?  Is that why the rod is so small , giving it more surface area on the piston .

Yes, it lifts as it retracts.  The rest of your question I don't know.  I believe the reason it is pitted is that the former owner left it extended to relieve pressure on the cylinder thus exposing the rod.  I have a solution for that, I plan on making a wooden support to back into with the cylinder retracted that would take the weight.  Hopefully, I will never have this problem again IF I can find the proper fix.


Edited by gtcsreg, June 23, 2015 - 08:20 AM.

  • Alc said thank you

#27 Oliver 2-44 OFFLINE  

Oliver 2-44
  • Member
  • Member No: 66772
  • 47 Thanks
  • 28 posts
  • Location: Marble Falls, Texas

Posted June 23, 2015 - 08:34 AM

If you can't find a (free) shock absorber rod the correct size you can buy chromed "drill rod" in metric and standard diameters.  Mcmaster Carr, Grainger, etc sell drill rod, or just search for drill rod and multiple suppliers will come up

 

 You can also take your cylinder to a hydraulic shop. they can make you a new rod (probable out of drill rod) and hone the cylinder bore and install new seals and packing and it will be as good as new.

 

If you go this route, you want to make sure the cylinder bore is worthy of rebuilding.  A good hydraulic shop will inspect the bore after disassembly and let you know if it has any internal pitting that won't hone out..  


  • ducky, limebuzz, Alc and 1 other said thanks

#28 gtcsreg OFFLINE  

gtcsreg
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 25875
  • 1,665 Thanks
  • 1,646 posts
  • Location: Winchester, IL

Posted August 17, 2015 - 11:46 AM

I called a local outfit that deal with a lot of hydraulic cylinders and they referred me to who they use for rebuilds.  Took it to that outfit and I'm pleased at how good and complete a job they did.  They replaced the pitted rod, honed the inside and replaced the seals.  Cost me $265 but I am confident I won't have any problems with this again.  Thanks for all your help and thoughts guys!

Attached Thumbnails

  • Photo1486.jpg
  • Photo1485.jpg

  • limebuzz, coldone and ENafziger have said thanks




Top