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Tuff Torq K46S Hydro Suddenly Noisy, No Loss Of Drive


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#1 aesmith OFFLINE  

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Posted June 12, 2014 - 10:59 AM

Hi,

 

Our mower is a Mountfield 1436H (one of the many clones from Castelgarden/GGP).   I believe that the transmission is a Tuff Torq K46S.    It's a 2003 model, and they're one of the manufacturers that claim the hydro is sealed for life with no maintenance required.  Of course now I know that's not the case, but it means that for the last few years the machine's just been used and the transmission not checked other than for oil leaks.

 

My issue is that the machine suddenly started making a moaning, almost grinding noise from the transmission.   The noise is continuous when the engine's running and the belt's in place, not just when it drives forward or back.   It doesn't appear to affect driving power, but of course I'm not keen on running it while it makes this noise.   I checked the oil level once I worked out how to access the reservoir, and the level could well have been low.   Complete oil change hasn't helped the noise.

 

Any ideas for sensible checks before getting stuck in and dismantling the axle?   My guess at the moment is that oil was low or something, and now there's been some mechanical damage internally.   Maybe the top bearing, that takes the belt tension.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Tony S


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#2 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted June 12, 2014 - 11:02 AM

Being it does it whether under pulling load or neutral, I'm with you on an input bearing issue.


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#3 Gabriel OFFLINE  

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Posted June 12, 2014 - 08:56 PM

WELCOME!



#4 aesmith OFFLINE  

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Posted June 13, 2014 - 03:33 AM

WELCOME!

Thanks.  I see your MF badge on the picture.  We used to have a 35, and now have a 50B digger.


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#5 Gabriel OFFLINE  

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Posted June 14, 2014 - 09:16 AM

Thanks.  I see your MF badge on the picture.  We used to have a 35, and now have a 50B digger.

Yes, I'm a Massey fan. We've been using only MF tractors on our farm for 30 years. I just bought a MF 14 garden tractor this past Winter. We have a MF 165, MF 383, MF 3140 and MF 8160 tractors. Do you have any pictures of yours?



#6 aesmith OFFLINE  

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Posted June 14, 2014 - 01:50 PM

Do you have any pictures of yours?

Sure .. here's the best I can find of the '35.  That's a basic trip loader driven off the rear end.  Not really suitable for snow clearing as the bucket's narrower than the front wheels, and the controls are basic to say the least.

P2250020-CROP_zps18b195ba.jpg

 

And here's the 50B doing some pond rework. (just after this picture a hose failed dropping the back actor into the pond and leaving me stuck until I worked out how to rig a purchase from the loader to lift the arm clear of the ground)...

IMG_0640-CROP-1280_zps9b2069c5.jpg


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#7 stubbysteve OFFLINE  

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Posted June 14, 2014 - 11:46 PM

You will want to do an oil change on that. That was more than likely the problem to begin with.

Directions can be found with a google search.

Now it sounds like u have a needle bearing out. You should be able to take it apart to replace it.


Edited by MH81, January 31, 2015 - 10:31 PM.


#8 aesmith OFFLINE  

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Posted June 15, 2014 - 02:57 AM

Thanks.  There's quite a lot of information on the K46.  I haven't yet removed the transmission from the mower, but once I've done that I'll need to see if I can find the correct exploded diagram for my exact model.  Tuff Torq web site is out of service at the moment,  are they the sort of outfit that might email documents if I ask them?

 

Edit - just found a Tuff Torq doc "K46 TRANSAXLE INPUT SHAFT REPLACEMENT" detailing how to remove/replace the shaft, seal and bearing without splitting the casing.  That's got to be worth a try, but I'll need the unit on the bench first.

 

Tony S


Edited by aesmith, June 15, 2014 - 03:04 AM.

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#9 Gabriel OFFLINE  

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Posted June 15, 2014 - 08:42 PM

Sure .. here's the best I can find of the '35.  That's a basic trip loader driven off the rear end.  Not really suitable for snow clearing as the bucket's narrower than the front wheels, and the controls are basic to say the least.

P2250020-CROP_zps18b195ba.jpg

 

And here's the 50B doing some pond rework. (just after this picture a hose failed dropping the back actor into the pond and leaving me stuck until I worked out how to rig a purchase from the loader to lift the arm clear of the ground)...

IMG_0640-CROP-1280_zps9b2069c5.jpg

Thanks for the pictures! Your MF 50B is quite a beast!



#10 Gabriel OFFLINE  

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Posted June 15, 2014 - 08:48 PM

Here's some pictures of our tractors.

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#11 aesmith OFFLINE  

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Posted August 23, 2014 - 09:28 AM

Hi,

 

It was a long time before I got around to it but I've finally got stuck into the drive.  I followed the procedure on Tuff Torq's website to remove the input shaft only, and with a bit of care I managed to do this with the drive still mounted in the mower.   The upper bearing turns out to be a standard metric size (6202 open bearing) and I was able to get both the bearing and the oil seal from a normal engineering supplier rather than from Tuff Torq.   I cleaned the magnetic pickup which had quite a bit of black sludge on it, then reassembled to see.

 

The mower now runs fine, it seems to drive perfectly and there's no abnormal noise from the drive at all.  I now need to decide whether to do any further preventative work, for example a proper clean out before giving it another oil change.  At the moment it's probably 50/50 synthetic 5/30 and mineral 15/40 oil - just what I had to hand as I didn't want to splash out on expensive oil until I knew the drive was repairable.

 

The funny thing is that the bearing was really not that bad.  I little tiny bit of free play, but no roughness that I could really detect.  I've opened it up and there's no pitting on the races or the balls either.  If I hadn't already suspected that part, or if it had been an expensive bearing I would probably have said it was OK.  I would never have believed it was responsible for that terrible grinding noise.

 

One final thought, I think the drive must have been making a bit of a noise for a while without me noticing, as it seemed unnaturally quiet today when I was testing it.

 

All the best,  Tony S


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#12 byronmill OFFLINE  

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Posted January 31, 2015 - 09:03 PM

Hi,

 

It was a long time before I got around to it but I've finally got stuck into the drive.  I followed the procedure on Tuff Torq's website to remove the input shaft only, and with a bit of care I managed to do this with the drive still mounted in the mower.   The upper bearing turns out to be a standard metric size (6202 open bearing) and I was able to get both the bearing and the oil seal from a normal engineering supplier rather than from Tuff Torq.   I cleaned the magnetic pickup which had quite a bit of black sludge on it, then reassembled to see.

 

The mower now runs fine, it seems to drive perfectly and there's no abnormal noise from the drive at all.  I now need to decide whether to do any further preventative work, for example a proper clean out before giving it another oil change.  At the moment it's probably 50/50 synthetic 5/30 and mineral 15/40 oil - just what I had to hand as I didn't want to splash out on expensive oil until I knew the drive was repairable.

 

The funny thing is that the bearing was really not that bad.  I little tiny bit of free play, but no roughness that I could really detect.  I've opened it up and there's no pitting on the races or the balls either.  If I hadn't already suspected that part, or if it had been an expensive bearing I would probably have said it was OK.  I would never have believed it was responsible for that terrible grinding noise.

 

One final thought, I think the drive must have been making a bit of a noise for a while without me noticing, as it seemed unnaturally quiet today when I was testing it.

 

All the best,  Tony S

Tony, do you have an aftermarket part number for the seal? I have 6202 bearings in stock and would like to get the seal from my local bearing house. Thanks

Mike



#13 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted January 31, 2015 - 10:29 PM

Tony, do you have an aftermarket part number for the seal? I have 6202 bearings in stock and would like to get the seal from my local bearing house. Thanks

Mike

This thread is a little older, I'm not sure if Tony is on as much anymore.

You might contact Tuff Torq andsee if they have the part number available.

If you know the model number of the tranny, one of our site sponsors may be able to help as well (see link in my signature under this post)






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