Jd 400 Mitsubishi L3E Diesel Repower

Pager450n · Jun 7, 2014

You read it correct, im going to put a 3 cy diesel into my 1975 JD 400. I rebuilt the K532 alomst a year to this date, and it only has 34 hrs on it. A fellow member UTSmitty sent me a heads up on a L3E for sale localy. Price was good, had a missing water plug, but after getting it running, I have been gathering parts via ebay, summit racing, Baleyney and grainge, parts are now all here.

I will post a spreadsheet of all the listings, est price and product for this build. I hope this will help others as the experienced chime in on my many questions that will be on thier way. This will be a transplant lasting, until Sept ( I hope)

Please replay to help build a decent thread to help others jump on the coal train

I think I will post each task will be posted on its own posting. I figure that will help break it down for others.

Enigne. Mitsubishi L3E, 1.0L displacement

For starters, two adapters had to be turned, one for the front and rear outputs. The 400 needs both, hydro drive for rear and manual engagement PTO for front. see pics

REAR PTO STUB (used a kohler 25 hp shaft) turned down

before

turning

UTSmitty helping out, BTW

Final result, will cut keyway in for new driveshaft

Pager450n · Jun 7, 2014

FRONT PTO

flywheel inside measurement

outside lip

Me and Smitty got together again and looked at the options. We decided to turn the zerotun pto shaft down to the first measurement, around 5.118"

This is the only pic I have of the pto, its rough OD was 5.35", so turning was in order for sure.

took a good 1hr to turn the OD down to the needed 5.118"

rough fit, notice the PTO face is out a rough 1/8 or so. Again, my RTS is acting up.

turning the marriage face down flush

flush, but Smitty will be transfering the bolt pattern off the flywheel for me and finish it up. After which, the project will be a GO! Last item off the list.

JDBrian · Jun 7, 2014

Very interesting repower. Thanks for posting.

Pager450n · Jun 7, 2014

RADIATOR

Picked it off the one auction site, seems to fit nicely (in my mind, of course) 15.5 x 18 top of cap

As for air flow, im shooting for a elec fan off a 91 accord. It has only 4 blades compared to the stock radiator fan of 7

I made the shrowd out of 14 gauge tin.

The pull from the fan is really nice, im not sure if I like the idea of a elec fan in lieu of a engine ran fan. I may look into putting the radiator between the engine and the driving console???? But for now, im happy with the side profile.

Pager450n · Jun 7, 2014

DRIVESHAFT

I looked up the mod done by a fellow WFMer. The idea is to have a two piece, but im not sure if I will go through with it, but who knows

I have to break down two of the three u joints, one was a 3/4" and the other 1"

assembly

finished product. The u joint is for the hydro end.

Now, the existing hydro fan is set to be welded onto the u joint, 3/4 side.

Pager450n · Jun 7, 2014

HYDROCOOLER

With the new u joints, I wanted to update the cooling system for the 400. I know the bar style cooler works great with the air cooled engine, but needed a different option that would stradle the driveshaft, due to space issues. Picked one up again off a site for a decent price.

side view

should fit

I have been thinking about how I might get air flow since the L3E has no belt side fan and the radiator fan is a pull, fighting agains the flywheel wall will be tough. So I have been looking into some hydro fans off Cubs, Jacobs, and JDs. Id realy like to get another jd400 driveshaft fan. but they only come with the driveshaft.

Heres what I have.........for now. 4.5" OD x 1" ID . Will weld onto a 1" ring and build a shroud to direct air once it gets placed into the jd

OR I could use the radiator fan, mount the radiator as mention for option B and stack the cooler behind the radiator?????

This is up to date as of today. I plan to get this thing going soon!

Utah Smitty · Jun 8, 2014

Good summary Ryan! We need to look at the Toro L3E and see if the electric PTO on it will work--assuming you want it. Also has the coupler for the driveline. The engine is placed backwards for the mower--same as your JS400.

Many Toros actually run a driveline over the top of the engine to drive the fan, but this one, since it's driven off the front of the engine, just uses the crank pulley.

The PTO belt drives a drive line that runs along the left side of the machine to drive to mower deck. It looks like it's a wide V belt, but it's actually a married double V belt, so it shouldn't be a problem to run two single V belts if you want to do that.

I actually prefer a mechanically-actuated PTO, ala' Cub Cadet, Bolens, etc. Seems they are more reliable over all, and easier to fix when something wears out--just pulleys and bearings in the case of the Bolens.

Smitty

Pager450n · Jul 30, 2014

All right, lets get this repower going. Thanks to UTsmitty, we (he) machined the last parts that I needed to get both ends to PTO.

Heres the pic of the flywheel side.

installed

I believe im looking at a 1 1/8" for the front PTO. I tagged the original spinning at 3600 rpm via kohler and I was @ 1780 rpm. I will have to crunch some numbers to get the right speed for the rear pto to match the original RPM as well as not be running the L3E at WOT. Id like to get the engine to run the pto at around 2000 RPM, leaving a little extra, just in case.

Now the driveshaft PTO was just a slip on, relying on the two set screws, but I wanted a little more grip, so I purchased a cutting head, and gave it to steve who had a keyway cut in.

Now for the fun part!

Pager450n · Jul 31, 2014

I parked the JD for one last time with the kohler in it and took a good 20 min or so to get that gassy engine out. It was a great engine, fun to rebuild, but it seemed to take 5 gals rather quickly.

So here are some shots of the k532 next to the Mitsubishi for size comparisons. From the looks of the pictures, I should have plenty of room, well I hope

Front top side

Side by side, roughly lined up with the front PTO shafts

Back view

One more front view

The one thing that will be a head scratcher will be the oil pan for the L3E. As it sits on the dolley, the pan sits below the carpet area by 3" or so. Im planning on using the exisiting engine mounts for easy install, and being able to mount the side panels to keep a stock look. So, im not sure where I can make that depth up at? Do i just raise it up, find a new pan thatwould fit with a shallower pan or cut out an area in the chassie?

Utah Smitty · Jul 31, 2014

Well, Ryan, you're certainly not letting any grass grow under your feet on this deal!! The pictures are great, and it looks like the parts we machined will work well too... time will tell as you continue to work on it.

On another note, the 3pt mower, Gannon convertible box scraper, and log splitter for my 'Bota 7100 should arrive tomorrow (hopefully).

The guy was going to hold it until next paycheck (Aug 7th) as I've sunk a lot of money into my tractor and trailer, but he wanted me to get it earlier, so Marilyn and I scraped up money wherever we could--dug through couches, broke our piggy banks (not really), emptied the Christmas fund and even had to borrow $100 from my oldest son to get the $1,100 together. It's been a long series of stops and starts... I hope it's finally a go.

Smitty

Utah Smitty · Jul 31, 2014

Pager450n said:
I parked the JD for one last time with the kohler in it and took a good 20 min or so to get that gassy engine out. It was a great engine, fun to rebuild, but it seemed to take 5 gals rather quickly.

So here are some shots of the k532 next to the Mitsubishi for size comparisons. From the looks of the pictures, I should have plenty of room, well I hope

Front top side

Side by side, roughly lined up with the front PTO shafts

Back view

One more front view

The one thing that will be a head scratcher will be the oil pan for the L3E. As it sits on the dolley, the pan sits below the carpet area by 3" or so. Im planning on using the exisiting engine mounts for easy install, and being able to mount the side panels to keep a stock look. So, im not sure where I can make that depth up at? Do i just raise it up, find a new pan thatwould fit with a shallower pan or cut out an area in the chassie?

It's a tough decision knowing what to do in this case--you want as much oil capacity as possible as it helps to cool the engine as well as provide lube. Can you weld up a custom pan for the engine that will allow you to keep the frame member? If not, you may have to cut it, but not all the way through vertically, then reinforce it along the cut, etc.

If you're going to be home Friday I'll drop by.

FWIW,

Smitty

Pager450n · Jul 31, 2014

Utah Smitty said:
It's a tough decision knowing what to do in this case--you want as much oil capacity as possible as it helps to cool the engine as well as provide lube. Can you weld up a custom pan for the engine that will allow you to keep the frame member? If not, you may have to cut it, but not all the way through vertically, then reinforce it along the cut, etc.

If you're going to be home Friday I'll drop by.

FWIW,

Smitty

I will keep that in mind. I'm going to odd a rough set in Thursday morn. I have a back to back shift on Friday, 20 hrs, but will be around on sat.

Cvans · Jul 31, 2014

Having been in your shoes several times I've opted to go with engine needs over appearance. It can look like l a million bucks but if it can't be serviced and maintained or it over heats you've really gained nothing. I have left all the side panels off of mine because they were built to work and I want to be able to check all the fluids and clean the radiator easily. After 31 years as a plant engineer it seems like things that are covered up or out of sight get neglected.

On the other hand your project need not look cobbled together either. One thing to keep in mind is adequate air flow for cooling. On hot humid days it takes a lot of air moving through the radiator to cool the engine. Not only does the air need an unrestricted path to the radiator, it needs to leave the engine compartment just as easily.

Thanks for posting your project and it will be fun watching your progress. Brings back a lot of memories.

Pager450n · Jul 31, 2014

Cvans said:
Having been in your shoes several times I've opted to go with engine needs over appearance. It can look like l a million bucks but if it can't be serviced and maintained or it over heats you've really gained nothing. I have left all the side panels off of mine because they were built to work and I want to be able to check all the fluids and clean the radiator easily. After 31 years as a plant engineer it seems like things that are covered up or out of sight get neglected.

On the other hand your project need not look cobbled together either. One thing to keep in mind is adequate air flow for cooling. On hot humid days it takes a lot of air moving through the radiator to cool the engine. Not only does the air need an unrestricted path to the radiator, it needs to leave the engine compartment just as easily.

Thanks for posting your project and it will be fun watching your progress. Brings back a lot of memories.

Im glad that im bringing back memories :rolling: But im hoping that the ones I will be making will be good.

Got to work on the patient today, as was able to place the engine roughly into its new home. Seems to fit well, I had to cut the the tabs that help secure the battery box, side panels and pto cable setup.... nothing much :wallbanging: I had to in order to get the alt to spin without potential hazards.

Before fit, you can see the issue.

cut

Sorry, side panels are a little off, had to bend them to get the old cooling coil out.

Pager450n · Jul 31, 2014

Im toying with the idea of using the old motor mounts for the k532, but I had to cut the front ones out so I could get the the lower radiator port through without hindering the PTO pulley.

I now have an issue with the radiator inlet/outlet on the bottom. I need to move it over to the far side so it will clear the pulley. Can this be done? Can you take it to someone and have them cap the existing and put a new hose connection? If not, Im going to have to searc hfor another radiator. :wallbanging:

Im also considering a possibility of using a pulley driven fan for the radiator. I need to find one that is a little smaller than the existing 8 blade. Reason being is that when the radiator is placed up to its proposed spot, the elec motor and its housing run into the pto shaft. Now I can make a shroud that will bring in plenty of air since it will be driven by the motor, but it will be smaller due to the height of the pto. Thats if I dont set up a small pulley with pillow blocks to hold it up 3 inches. (need a head scratching icon !)

Pager450n · Jul 31, 2014

But for the most par t of today, im please with how the engine sits. I will not have to worry about cutting into the frame like I mentioned before, plus I have a decent location for the oil drain. It sits in an open area between the pto and rear engine mounting location. There is also about 1" of space between the bottom of the oil pan and the frame, so airflow will get around there just fine.

Hood closes, well for now. I still need to get the radiator in and te oil cooler and the battery

oil pan location/ oil drain

oil cooler location. Im also looking at possibly using Hifax off snowmobiles that would run the lenght between the driveshaft input and output. Seems a little tight, then throw in a battery and hardly any air flow for the cooler.

Pager450n · Jul 31, 2014

Im currently looking at what I need to monitor on this engine.

I currently have the oil pressure, but im looking into cooling temp (radiator) possible current.

Possible RPM- 2500 give or take, egt (for future td02 turbo) that will bring in boost monitoring.

Would you monitor fuel pressure and hydro temp? would be nice to have a guage cluster similar to my edge CTS on my cummins, but have it be analog inputs.

So, any good reviews of brands for these meters? The 400 will be in and out in the weather.

Cvans · Aug 1, 2014

Suggestion. Move the fan around to the front of the radiator if you have room. all of my radiators were mounted on the other end of the engine to keep the hose runs as short as possible and to keep the PTO end of the engine uncluttered. Others have been successful doing it your way and hopefully they will have suggestions for you.

You might be able to find a copper sweat fitting that will just fit the lower hose fitting and be able to change the outlet angle. Something like a street 45. I've done this with good results.

Pager450n · Aug 1, 2014

Cvans said:
Suggestion. Move the fan around to the front of the radiator if you have room. all of my radiators were mounted on the other end of the engine to keep the hose runs as short as possible and to keep the PTO end of the engine uncluttered. Others have been successful doing it your way and hopefully they will have suggestions for you.

You might be able to find a copper sweat fitting that will just fit the lower hose fitting and be able to change the outlet angle. Something like a street 45. I've done this with good results.

Id like to look into the fan in the front. I guess it can be done, just not sure of the looks. But whats more important is the functionality.

Ill snap a shot of the radiator to see if the inlet can be moved or maybe im out 100 bucks or so :wallbanging:

Utah Smitty · Aug 1, 2014

Ryan

Looking at the oil pan/drain location picture, I can see one of the OEM JD mounts, and a couple bolt holes in the lower block of the engine. It would be fairly simple to attache a plate to the bolt holes, then weld a bracket that would fit on the rubber pad on the motor mount... can't see what the back end has, but if the rubber pad is still there, you could make the mount extend front and rear.

Pager450n · Aug 1, 2014

Utah Smitty said:
Ryan

Looking at the oil pan/drain location picture, I can see one of the OEM JD mounts, and a couple bolt holes in the lower block of the engine. It would be fairly simple to attache a plate to the bolt holes, then weld a bracket that would fit on the rubber pad on the motor mount... can't see what the back end has, but if the rubber pad is still there, you could make the mount extend front and rear.

I was planning on using both front and rear OEM mounts, but the front ones had to be cut out to make room for the radiator. But I'll be using the rears for sure.

I was looking at the possibilities of using a JD 455 radiator fan mount that would bring the use of a mechanical radiator fan.

Pager450n · Aug 8, 2014

Being that I finally have a day off from work, I figured I could get a little work on the 400.

Last week I was able to decide where the new (318 coil) hydro cooler will be located. Since there will be no room up front and none by the battery as I was planning. I looked below, and found the spot.

It sits nicely below the body, but nothing too extreme. Im planning on running a flat bar, or angle iron across both ends to make a perminate mount. Its currently wedged on the loop ends and zip tied to hold the other end. I like this spot simply becuase its easy to maintain, not crouding and a lot of open air.

Since its below everthing, I would assume the air will be pulled or pushed depending on air temps. Also, the previous lines for the hydro cooler will slip on the ends. Im hoping that this will cut some cost that I will be incurring on hydro lines.

Pager450n · Aug 8, 2014

I also got my radiator back from a local shop. He has done a lot of radiators for me and never disapoints. You might wonder why I have to fix a brand new radiator, well this is the reason, both inlet and outlet were on the same side AND I would run into the pto idler pulley.

with fan and tentative location. You can see the problem with the pulley

So I also was going to use a elec fan and have that cool, but I ran into another problem. The pto out the flywheel would be in the way. So possible issue resolved. I bought a JD 425 saddle mount with radiator cooling fan that I sould be able to mount up just fine to the frame or motor. I cut the elec fan off, leaving the shroud and it looks fine to me.

The fan fits great, and now im deciding how to get a belt to it and still manage to get the pto working.

Duh, heres a pic of the fixed radiator

And how things are looking for the repower

Pager450n · Aug 8, 2014

RPM issue

Before the JD400 ran the pto at the axle at arounf 1700 rpm give or take. Now the diesel runs at a lower rpm and will have a smaller OD pulley

Here is what I have come up with. With a 2000 rpm drive, and using the 7" pto, and a new 4" dual groove pulley this will give me approx 1100 rpm @ pto. Also the radiator fan will be @ 1500 rpm using the same 4" pulley on the engine.

On the bright side, this will put the rear pto closer to a 540 pto? If not, I can take apart the rear casing and change out the gears to get the original, designed rpm for the tiller.

And on the front of the 400, I have a gravely 44 sweeper that would like the slower rpm, right?

Pager450n · Aug 8, 2014

Also, can I get away with only using one pulley for the pto, or do I need both? I know many elec pto systems use only one, but if I can use just one, then that will free up a groove for the fan.

Cvans · Aug 8, 2014

I think I know what your saying so here goes. I have always used both belts for the PTO. On the other hand if your deck only uses one belt you might get by with one on the PTO. . If you go to a raw rubber edged belt you will have more traction on that belt.

Is there a chance that you can add another pulley to the original?

Jd 400 Mitsubishi L3E Diesel Repower

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