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Turning Pto On Stalls Tractor After 3Yr Old Son Got To My 316


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#1 Michi-Ken OFFLINE  

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Posted June 01, 2014 - 10:08 AM

I have a '79 316 tractor that the PTO was working.

When I start the tractor, and then turn on the PTO switch, it stalls out engine.

 

I have taken off the belt that goes around the PTO and back to the mower deck. With nothing drawing demand from the front PTO pulley. My dad watched from the front, and said it barley move while I engaged the switch, and he could stop it from turning by lightly touching it with a broom handle.

 

Story starts that my wife was mowing and game back to get more gas, during the startup process when she switched the PTO then stalls started, and continued to occur. When I when to examine the adjustment knob on the front. IT WAS GONE...  One of two things could of happened. One the black knob fell off while mowing. Second and most logical, is that my 3yr old son took it off.

 

While trying to just rig a temporary fix with some coat hanger through the front hole, and bolting the wire so it would not slip back. I found something that blew me away..

 

The pulley on the right side(standing at the front) of the tractor, I saw that the pulley had eaten through 3/8" of metal from the suspension bar going from the engine to front tire. see attached photo. I can imaging how long it was doing this to eat that far through metal. That I fixed by getting the pulley away from it, but now PTO still stalls engine. 

 

Please let me know what you think to do next...

Thanks,

Ken

 

 

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#2 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted June 01, 2014 - 10:21 AM

Sounds like a safety interlock problem.  There is likely a switch somewhere that is open or closed when it shouldn't be, thus killing the engine when you try to turn on the PTO.  Some tractors will die if you put it in reverse with the blades turning.


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#3 KC9KAS OFFLINE  

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Posted June 01, 2014 - 01:03 PM

#1 thing to do is keep the wife off the mower!

Women just don't hear things going wrong on a GT or the mower.

i could elaborate more, but I will stop here.


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#4 HowardsMF155 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 01, 2014 - 04:09 PM

#1 thing to do is keep the wife off the mower!

Women just don't hear things going wrong on a GT or the mower.

i could elaborate more, but I will stop here.

My wife expects that if something is actually wrong  a host of angels will appear and TELL her to stop using a machine.



#5 GTTinkerer OFFLINE  

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Posted June 01, 2014 - 08:57 PM

Could it be that the knob actually fell into the belt drive area and is locking up a pulley or idler?  Might have been bouncing around on the deck until the clutch was shut off and got jammed up when you tried to restart.  After four and a half decades of wrenching I have seen stranger things than that happen.


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#6 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted June 01, 2014 - 10:34 PM

In my mind, it sounds like the Occupant Safety Switch.
Is it possible the seat switch is sending bad info to the system and it doesn't know there is an occupant when activating the clutch and shutting down the engine?
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#7 Michi-Ken OFFLINE  

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Posted June 08, 2014 - 02:15 PM

Well I did get out and tried  to check things out.

 

First thing I tried was to look at the Occupancy Safety Switch. I removed it from within the seat to manipulate it after I had started the engine. After I started the engine, I bowed the swithch as if the riders weight would of bowed it. While the engine was running I tried to engage the PTO - engine stalled.

 

I still don't know if the switch is good right? There are two red wires coming in/out of the switch. I assume the bowing of the switch closes the circuit, so if I unplugged the switch and jumper it closed, then if the same result of a stall could rule out the Occupancy Switch.

 

As far as the Brake Switch, I don't know where to find it. I have never needed to depress the break to start the engine. Actually the breaks have worked so poorly that I put the tractor into neutral to stop movement of the tractor. My yard is very flat. Breaks would be nice, another project some day.

 

The breaks had an adjustment knob in the lower right-hand corner. It did the last time I looked had a round 1" ball on it - now it is gone. I suspect my 3 yr old took that off too. I rigged up a temporary replacement. I can't read on the sticker what it does. It is shaped like an upside down "J" with the short side to the right. What is the function & customary position for it. Is it for putting the tractor in park?

 

Is there another switch besides the Occupancy that could stop the PTO from engaging and stalling the engine.

 

Thanks for you help,

Ken



#8 Michi-Ken OFFLINE  

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Posted June 08, 2014 - 02:28 PM

I also removed all belts off the pulleys so there is no draw on the PTO. It is free to spin but still stalls.


Edited by Michi-Ken, June 08, 2014 - 02:29 PM.


#9 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted June 08, 2014 - 04:45 PM

Check the pink wire from the IGN terminal on the ignition switch to the seat safety switch and then on to the "A" terminal of the PTO switch.  

 

Your engine will die if it looses power (12vdc) to the anti-dieseling solenoid or to the coil.  The power gets there on the pink wire coming from the "A" post on the PTO switch.  Power get to the "A" post from a) the pink wire coming from the "IGN" terminal on the key switch via the seat switch, and/or b) from the yellow wire from the "IGN" terminal via the "C" terminal when the PTO switch is off.  In your case a) is missing and b) is working. The engine dies because C & A are no longer connected when PTO is on.

 

jd300 wiring_diag_ser_no_70001-80000-112437_0001 marked.jpg


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#10 hdg4400 ONLINE  

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Posted June 08, 2014 - 05:18 PM

Michi-ken:

 

On my 318 (and I assume the same is true for your 316) that lower right knob is the parking brake. If you press down and hold down the brake pedals, pull the knob to the left and down, it sets the brake and the brakes should not come up. If your brakes work, and the safety switches are working correctly, you should be able to get off the tractor and it should stay running. You still can't run the PTO and get off the tractor, the seat switch should prevent that.

 

To release the parking break, push down on the brake pedals, pull the ball up and to the right, and the brakes should come up. I hope that is clear. As I said, this is how it works on my 318.

 

Harlan



#11 Trav1s ONLINE  

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Posted June 08, 2014 - 05:57 PM

Here is what is in my service manual for the 300/316k/312/314 has for your 316.  The 300/316 are very close other than some variations between the early and later 300s.  I hope the pics help.  If anything catches your eye I can get the pages before or after them for you.  Generally this manual is divided according to models as follows:

  • 300/316 (16HP K341)
  • 312/314 (12HP K301 / 14HP K321)

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Edited by Trav1s, June 08, 2014 - 06:03 PM.


#12 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted June 09, 2014 - 06:43 AM

Those PTO switches are a known problem area. You can check the rivets on the back to make sure they are tight. Sometimes they get bad connections. You can clean them really good and solder them to fix that issue. Sometimes the switch is dirty inside. I've disassembled them and repaired them but it's a fussy job. Be careful if you try it. There are maybe 6 springs in there and they like to fly out when you take the back off the switch. I think a new one is about 30$ from JD


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#13 Trav1s ONLINE  

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Posted June 09, 2014 - 07:46 AM

For what its worth - When I put my 120 back together after repainting and repairing it I replaced every switch on the tractor.  I figured after 40 years the money spent would save me headaches.


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#14 WNYTractorTinkerer ONLINE  

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Posted June 09, 2014 - 08:16 AM

#1 thing to do is keep the wife off the mower!

Women just don't hear things going wrong on a GT or the mower.

i could elaborate more, but I will stop here.

My wife is afraid of the AWS on my 425 so I don't have to worry about that!  The computer on the other hand seems to always cause her troubles..  THEN she yells @ me and complains and is angry because it doesn't work so I gotta both fix it and endure her wrath because it broke! :wallbanging:



#15 Trav1s ONLINE  

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Posted June 10, 2014 - 04:55 PM

How did you ever come out with this?






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