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Uncle's B110 Not Starting Need Help


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#1 Nascar3244888 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2011 - 07:38 PM

Hey guys, my uncle asked for some help with his allis b110. He has had problems with the battery draining, and the engine not wanting to start due to the starter gen not hardly spinning enough. The battery is brand new and volts are 12.77, also the solenoid is new and the starter gen was rebuilt within the past year. He had a problem with the battery draining overnight. He would fully charge the battery and it would hold the charge until he put it in the tractor. He actually went and bought another battery and installed it and it started right up no problem(this was last friday) to plow the drive, he then left it sit until tuesday and it wouldnt even crank over and he seen the battery was totally drained. He tried putting a new solenoid on and it does the same thing. He even tried using a car battery from his expedition to try and give the small one a helping hand and it still hardly wants to turn over. Oil in engine is top full and upon taking the spark plug out it turns over fine since there is no compression. I measured voltage when trying to start through the solenoid down at the wire by the starter gen and i get 6.75-7 volts and if i take the spark plug out i get maybe 7.30 volts or so. I measured voltage at the trigger wire(sends voltage to starter to turn over when trying to start) and get the same voltage....on the live battery side of the solenoid i get battery voltage.. Does this sound ok? I dont know much about electrical systems so im just kindof going over what i know with ya.....Any idea what would cause this battery drain or the starter gen not wanting to turn over right? Is it the starter gen thats bad? It was just rebuilt like i said...within the year.....Any ideas on what to check and how to do it? Im headed up mid morning tomorrow so any help is greatly appreciated....

#2 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2011 - 07:42 PM

Could the Tractor have been wired the wrong way? It sounds to me like the tractor is "Live" at all times even when off.

Hopefully someone else will have much better advice than mine LOL

#3 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2011 - 07:48 PM

About the only thing that would drain the battery is a bad voltage regulator. I'm assuming it still uses the magneto ignition, or has it been changed to battery powered coil ignition? Check your ground connections.....can't say how many times this cranking problem comes down to a corroded ground, or faulty ground cable. You can get full voltage even with a faulty ground. Good enough ground to read voltage, but not enough to carry a cranking load. During cranking, you can get really low voltage readings, and it can be totally normal, especially when really cold, causing starter to really pull the amps. 12.77 volts is kind of low for a fully charged battery. A good hot battery should show 13+ volts, but again, in cold weather it will be lower.
Cheapest place I know for the regulator is here, second down the page...part #AHGDR6005 AEP AFTERMARKET:

BRIGGS STRATTON VOLTAGE REGULATORS


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#4 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2011 - 07:49 PM

Did the problem start happening when the starter was rebuilt or is that why the starter was rebuilt(no start)?
Is the key switch "funny" in any way? (Jiggle it to shut it off, no spark unless it's JUST right)
Is it the original switch or has the wiring Been changed and a new switch installed?
Does it still have the original push button start, or is it in the key now?

I know I was just shotgunning questions at you, just getting them all in at once :D
Any questions I missed for starters?

#5 Nascar3244888 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2011 - 07:55 PM

About the only thing that would drain the battery is a bad voltage regulator. I'm assuming it still uses the magneto ignition, or has it been changed to battery powered coil ignition? Check your ground connections.....can't say how many times this cranking problem comes down to a corroded ground, or faulty ground cable. You can get full voltage even with a faulty ground. Good enough ground to read voltage, but not enough to carry a cranking load. During cranking, you can get really low voltage readings, and it can be totally normal, especially when really cold, causing starter to really pull the amps. 12.77 volts is kind of low for a fully charged battery. A good hot battery should show 13+ volts, but again, in cold weather it will be lower.
Cheapest place I know for the regulator is here, second down the page...part #AHGDR6005 AEP AFTERMARKET:

BRIGGS STRATTON VOLTAGE REGULATORS


no coil so i guess its a magneto.....regulator huh.....hmmmmm....

#6 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2011 - 07:56 PM

I believe, if in OE configuration, that the key switch only serves to engage the starter and to kill by grounding the mag. The voltage regulators should kick themselves out when engine is shut down, but a faulty one keeps the starter live through the field. My Bush Hogs with starter/gen, and my Unico all have systems with regulator "on their own", separate from the key switch.
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#7 Nascar3244888 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2011 - 07:57 PM

Did the problem start happening when the starter was rebuilt or is that why the starter was rebuilt(no start)?
Is the key switch "funny" in any way? (Jiggle it to shut it off, no spark unless it's JUST right)
Is it the original switch or has the wiring Been changed and a new switch installed?
Does it still have the original push button start, or is it in the key now?

I know I was just shotgunning questions at you, just getting them all in at once :D
Any questions I missed for starters?


didnt start happening till recently it was working great with no problems over the summer mowing season.....key switch seems fine and all is original including wiring....never had a starter button all done through the key....

#8 Nascar3244888 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2011 - 07:59 PM

I believe, if in OE configuration, that the key switch only serves to engage the starter and to kill by grounding the mag. The voltage regulators should kick themselves out when engine is shut down, but a faulty one keeps the starter live through the field. My Bush Hogs with starter/gen, and my Unico all have systems with regulator "on their own", separate from the key switch.


all i know is that on the key switch it is like any other....off, run, start.....

#9 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2011 - 08:01 PM

About the only thing that would drain the battery is a bad voltage regulator.


Dan, Can he disconnect the regulator with out any untoward effects? Charge the battery overnight & for all the more the starter will pull, run it that way for a day or 3 to see if the drain goes away.

Ground is a really good starting point for the hard start.

#10 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2011 - 08:07 PM

Most likely, the field is all that would need to be disconnected at the starter to see if it still drains the battery over time. But then the light circuit could be a culprit, so best just to take all connections from the regulator. NO harm will come to the starter by removing them, but DO tape the wire ends to prevent any short circuits of the loose wires.
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#11 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2011 - 08:18 PM

For a battery drain you might want to try this : Start with a good charged battery, disconnect the neg. battery terminal and hook a test light between battery post and cable , if there is a load ( drain ) the test light will light , and if it does try unhooking the voltage regulator and see if the light goes out .If the light is still lit , try wiggling wires sometimes wires will short out but not enough to melt them. Hope this helps somewhat.
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#12 Nascar3244888 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2011 - 08:49 PM

For a battery drain you might want to try this : Start with a good charged battery, disconnect the neg. battery terminal and hook a test light between battery post and cable , if there is a load ( drain ) the test light will light , and if it does try unhooking the voltage regulator and see if the light goes out .If the light is still lit , try wiggling wires sometimes wires will short out but not enough to melt them. Hope this helps somewhat.


how exactly to i hook a test light between the post and cable all test lights i have seen have a single tip to touch stuff with, is the test light ur describing have 2 connections and one goes to the post of the battery and the other hook on the cable? or can i use a test light like the one i said about and just put it inbetween the cable and post all touching together...sorry if im confused...never did this before....also....when you say remove the wires from the regulator....do i just unhook all the wires from the regulator to test and leave everything else hooked up?????Do I need the key in the on or off position for this? Sorry so many questions and im trying to learn all this by tomorrow so i can help my uncle......oops forgot one other thing.....can i hook up a spare regulator i have that i know is good....are all regulators the same?????

#13 DH1 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2011 - 08:59 PM

Starter/Generator wiring dia. that I used on my Massey MF10
66 MF10 001.jpg
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#14 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2011 - 09:06 PM

how exactly to i hook a test light between the post and cable


I use alligator clips or a pair of locking pliers. I find it easiest to lightly vise-grip the probe end on the battery & use the clip to hook onto the battery cable. If there is current flow (drain), the light will light.

Sorry about the crudeness of the drawing, just trying to get the point across.

Attached Thumbnails

  • test light.jpg

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#15 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2011 - 09:09 PM

Sorry for any confusion , might have went too fast . If you have a test light , alligator clip on one end clip and a sharp point on the other , attach the alligator clip to the disconnected neg. battery cable. with the key off it shouldn't light if you touch the pointed end to the battery post . You might see the bulb on the test light glow dim for a small drain vs a bright light for a large drain . If you hook it up and don't get a light , either there isn't a drain or your not making good connections ,turn the key "on" the bulb should light then , verifying your connections.
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