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125 Hydro Charge Pump


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#1 WesJ OFFLINE  

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Posted April 18, 2014 - 10:12 PM

Hi guys. I changed the oil, hydro fluid, and filter on my 125 today. I got it a few months ago and this was my first change. I cranked it and it ran about 6 or 7 seconds perfectly fine. Then it suddenly "locked up" and died. The motor isnt locked up, the problem appears to be at the charging pump. I used the recommended fluids so that's ruled out. Any ideas what I may have done wrong or what the problem could be? Thanks guys

#2 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2014 - 07:00 AM

Check all the fluid levels again. It makes me think the fluid is the wrong type or amount in the trany. Sometimes the manuals can't tell the difference between qts and pts. Good Luck, Rick

#3 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2014 - 07:16 AM

Could just be bad luck and bad timing, though there is no good time for something like this.  But if it's a fluke, the timing mmakes it appear the oil change had something to do with it.  May not be the case at all.  Sounds like the charge pump gyrotor set has exploded.



#4 Kyocum ONLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2014 - 07:34 AM

Go out and check the end cap on the charge pump it sounds like you have installed it 180 out. On the bolt flanges for the charge pump there is on side with a rounded edge and one side has a flat edge. They need to be aligned up with the pump housing accordingly. Flat to flat and round edge to round edge. What oil filter did you use? Any tractor hydraulic oil is sufficient. I would be more concerned on the oil filter myself.I have been using off brand hydraulic oil for the better part of 30 yrs with no problems.


Edited by Kyocum, April 19, 2014 - 07:36 AM.


#5 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2014 - 07:38 AM

I didn't think Wes did anything but change the oil & filter.  I'm sure he'll confirm one way or another.



#6 WesJ OFFLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2014 - 08:01 AM

All I have done is change the fluids and filter. As far as the amount I put around 7 quarts in the tranny, I poured it in until it came out of my plug hole. And 1.5 on the motor. Could some sort of "dry-start" be possible with the hydro charge pump? Any heard of that?

#7 WesJ OFFLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2014 - 10:12 AM

Ok guys this is going to sound crazy haha i'm stumped now. I got the tractor separated. As I thought the pump was locked up. I took the 2 bolts out that hold the pump cover on and it free'd up! I put the bolts back in and it locks up. As long as they are finger tight it spins fine. As soon as I put pressure on them with a wrench it locks up. Any thoughts?

#8 Kyocum ONLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2014 - 10:36 AM

Ok guys this is going to sound crazy haha i'm stumped now. I got the tractor separated. As I thought the pump was locked up. I took the 2 bolts out that hold the pump cover on and it free'd up! I put the bolts back in and it locks up. As long as they are finger tight it spins fine. As soon as I put pressure on them with a wrench it locks up. Any thoughts?

What kind of filter did you use? I have heard of similar situations when people use automotive oil filters. It needs to be a hydraulic filter. I use a NAPA 3014 hydraulic filter on my cubs. Boy did I misread the first post. WHEW



#9 WesJ OFFLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2014 - 11:01 AM

I used a Fram 2844 it cross references to a cub cadet 723-3014 which is what my tractor uses. I know alot of people dont like Fram but i've never had an issue, and I cant make the connection between that and the tightness of those bolts.

#10 diesel nut ONLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2014 - 12:50 PM

Its possible that the pin that turns the gyrotor might have broken or the rotor itself broke and that's whats causing it to bind up when its tightend.  I haven't seen one break on these personally but have heard about it from my dad and a couple of other dealers I've talked too, but I have seen it on a 30 hp compact tractor.  You need to take the cover off completly and pull the pump off to look and see if its broken.  Mark the cover so it goes back on in the right direction and then pull it off.  If you get it put back on backwards it wont drive as it doesn't build pressure (found that out the hard way once).  Then the pump just slides off the shaft and the pin comes out.  The pump is a 2 piece, outer and inner and the pin just sits in the shaft and might fall out when you take the pump off or it might need to be pulled out.  I can get pictures of how it comes apart if you want.  Hope this helps.                   Stewart



#11 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2014 - 01:05 PM

Its possible that the pin that turns the gyrotor might have broken or the rotor itself broke and that's whats causing it to bind up when its tightend.               Stewart

 

Totally agree, and I've seen it happen.  Never seen the outer rotor break, but I've seen the star rotor break into multiple pieces.



#12 WesJ OFFLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2014 - 05:56 PM

After rereading my service manual I found the problem: overtorquing the 2 bolts. It specifies 52lbs. I dont know why there was no problem before because they were much tighter. But problem solved. Thanks guys.

#13 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2014 - 08:08 PM

After rereading my service manual I found the problem: overtorquing the 2 bolts. It specifies 52lbs. I dont know why there was no problem before because they were much tighter. But problem solved. Thanks guys.

 

That is awfully strange if you hadn't touched the bolts during the oil change.  So the tractor drives fine now?



#14 WesJ OFFLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2014 - 08:20 PM

Yes sir. Me and my dad were both scratching heads and he's been working on this stuff 30+ years. It specifies in the manual to be careful not to put the shaft in a bind by torquing one side too much. Trust me I know it sounds crazy.
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