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Adventures In Sheet Metal Welding.


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#1 coldone OFFLINE  

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Posted April 13, 2014 - 02:22 PM

With the 1650 diesel conversion I have had to extend the hood by 8 inches also. I cut the hood into 2 pieces so that the hole for the gas cap would be in the correct position. I then cut some 16g sheet metal to be 8 inchs wide and long enough to reach across the hood. I broke out my flux core welder because thats what everybody said to use. I am running .035 wire and set the dials to the recomeneded settings, min 1 power and 2-3 on wire speed. It blew nice holes right through the metal. Did a little more research and started using a brass backing plate. Now it just burns holes but dosent blow them. Did some more reading and came up with torch welding it. Well torch welding aint so good on butt joints. Used a backing plate and still managed to make holes. I did have some sucess with the torch but couldnt get a consistant weld,just spotty. Decided to heck with it and started to braze the  pieces together. Well that didnt go so good either, you see you cant grind the braze material off and have the pieces stay together. Who Knew? So as a last ditch effort I broke out my little check 110V sears stick welder and some 6013 rods. I struck and arc expecting to see it blow through too, but would you believe it ran a nice bead. No holes, just a nice little bead. So I finished out what I could and went back and tried to fill in the holes I had made from my previous attempts. It looks like I am going to have to cut out some bad spots and put in some patches, there is no hope for some of the areas I boogered up.

 

And NO yall aint gettin no pics of the mess. :D


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#2 Chopperhed OFFLINE  

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Posted April 13, 2014 - 02:44 PM

Sheet metal welding is a pain,

 

I have a HF flux core setup, and a 110v stickwelder, along with a bernozamatic oxy/map torch.

 

I  really prefer the stick welder 95% of the time. I only use the torch for brazing fuel tanks etc.

the flux core makes to much of a mess for anything pretty, so I never use it.

I'm sure with practice, it would be OK, but I prefer my little stick welder..


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#3 nbent OFFLINE  

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Posted April 13, 2014 - 02:47 PM

:wewantpics: your welds can't look any worse than some of mine 


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#4 coldone OFFLINE  

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Posted April 13, 2014 - 04:15 PM

:wewantpics: your welds can't look any worse than some of mine 

 

Its not the welds that look so bad, its the mistakes from trying to fix the previous mistakes,from trying to fix the misatkes before that. Just imagine Swiss cheese and sheet metal with some brass smeared on it.


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#5 ol' stonebreaker OFFLINE  

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Posted April 13, 2014 - 04:51 PM

  I've welded some pretty thin stuff w/ .024 wire on my mig by just stitch welding.

                                                         Mike


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#6 Cvans OFFLINE  

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Posted April 13, 2014 - 07:23 PM

You can butt weld sheet metal with a torch but you need a really small tip or a micro torch. In the old days exhaust (muffler) shops used to weld with a torch and those guys were good. Your 6013 with the 110v welder was good thinking on your part. Low penetration rod and fast filler deposit. 

Just curious as to how you dealt with the areas were you tried to braze?  From my experience trying to arc weld in an area that has been previously brazed is just about impossible unless all of the brass is removed.



#7 coldone OFFLINE  

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Posted April 13, 2014 - 09:33 PM

You can butt weld sheet metal with a torch but you need a really small tip or a micro torch. In the old days exhaust (muffler) shops used to weld with a torch and those guys were good. Your 6013 with the 110v welder was good thinking on your part. Low penetration rod and fast filler deposit. 

Just curious as to how you dealt with the areas were you tried to braze?  From my experience trying to arc weld in an area that has been previously brazed is just about impossible unless all of the brass is removed.

 

I was using either an 0 or 00 tip and I did have some luck with it. I tried a couple of different fillers, (coat hanger, different welding rods with flux knocked off) and even just fusing the butts together. I just couldnt get consistant welds. WIth alot more practice I could probably get the hang of it.

 

I was very suprised with the 6013. I started off using 1/16 thick rods at about 50-60 amps. Good beads (for me at least) and no over penetration. I had some big holes so i switched over to a 3/32 rod and worked the amperage around between 50 and 70 amps. I was using a brass backer but I didnt know what I was doing so I made the holes worse. When I went to  a clean area and tried the 3/32 rod it worked as good as the 1/16.

 

One of two thing would happen when I hit brass. 1 it would splatter and burn through the brass (already ground down the area so brass was thin) 2: It would splatter the brass and keep splatering tilll the brass was gone or I ate another hole in it.

 

My plans are to cut out the bad sections (about 40% of the joint) and weld in patches. I think once I get clean, full thickness metal I will get some good welds with the 6013.

 

Its all about learning and expanding my skills. I wont ever be a pro welder, but I will be able to stick a few pieces together and they hold.


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#8 Cvans OFFLINE  

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Posted April 13, 2014 - 11:10 PM

I admire your persistence in a difficult situation. 

Your results with welding over the brass matches my results to a tee. Trying to weld sheet metal is tough because totally controlling the distortion is almost impossible.

Good luck with your project.


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#9 wilberj OFFLINE  

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Posted April 13, 2014 - 11:27 PM

No beads!  Lower your settings and work you way around the area just makeing small spot welds to keep the heat down...  

 

Use a smaller wire like 0.023 it takes less heat to melt.


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#10 coldone OFFLINE  

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Posted April 14, 2014 - 05:42 AM

I would like to use to 0.023 wire but I dont want to buy the gas and reg right now, hobby funds are limited.

 

When you say no beads, does that apply to the 6013 rods also?



#11 coldone OFFLINE  

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Posted April 14, 2014 - 05:46 AM

I admire your persistence in a difficult situation. 

Your results with welding over the brass matches my results to a tee. Trying to weld sheet metal is tough because totally controlling the distortion is almost impossible.

Good luck with your project.

 

 

I guess the saying about God looking after children and fools applies here. I didnt have too much distortion considering how much heat, total, I put in the area.



#12 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted April 14, 2014 - 07:56 AM

I have a Harbor Freight 220V mig, I also only use flux core. I run .030 wire and turn my heat down to min and play with wire speed and still blow through sheet metal, I barely can weld exhaust pipe without blow outs. It really needs gas and .025 wire, but like you, just no money. I already bought my regulator, but man, just to buy a gas tank is outrageous.


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#13 Walkinman1 OFFLINE  

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Posted April 14, 2014 - 08:13 AM

Sheet metal cannot be welded in continuous beads. Even if you succeed in not burning through you will put too much heat into the panel and warp it, guaranteed. I've welded as thin as 20 gauge steel with flux core, .035 wire so it can be done.

There are many different methods for welding sheet metal panels together but if you're going to butt weld them the proper way is a series of overlapping tack welds, jumping around the seam, never allowing it to get too hot. It's VERY tedious work, especially with flux core wire as each tack needs to be cleaned before the next one can be done otherwise it will trap slag and once ground smooth you'll have porosity.

Here's an example of a panel welded exactly as I described:
uploadfromtaptalk1397481116061.jpg

Both ends of that panel were cracked 3-4" in towards the center along the bend. Like I said, very, very tedious work but the results are worth it if you take your time.
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#14 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted April 14, 2014 - 08:26 AM

Sheet metal cannot be welded in continuous beads. Even if you succeed in not burning through you will put too much heat into the panel and warp it, guaranteed. I've welded as thin as 20 gauge steel with flux core, .035 wire so it can be done.

There are many different methods for welding sheet metal panels together but if you're going to butt weld them the proper way is a series of overlapping tack welds, jumping around the seam, never allowing it to get too hot. It's VERY tedious work, especially with flux core wire as each tack needs to be cleaned before the next one can be done otherwise it will trap slag and once ground smooth you'll have porosity.

Here's an example of a panel welded exactly as I described:
attachicon.gifuploadfromtaptalk1397481116061.jpg

Both ends of that panel were cracked 3-4" in towards the center along the bend. Like I said, very, very tedious work but the results are worth it if you take your time.

 

I know to jump around, that's the way I usually weld thinner stuff.

 

So, with flux core....low heat correct?  What about wire speed, slower better or faster?



#15 Walkinman1 OFFLINE  

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Posted April 14, 2014 - 08:30 AM

Yes on the low heat, wire speed may require some fiddling around/practicing on test pieces. If it's too slow on a quick tack weld it won't deposit enough metal (leaving a crater of sorts) and if it's too fast you'll get a blob of metal sitting on top of the panel. Just right you'll see a nice rounded profile to the tack with the edges of the tack melted into the panel.
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