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The Decision On Moving The 3 Point Or Slowly Restoring The Second 1650. I Have Lots Of Questions I Need To Ask And It May Take Time.


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#1 gtcsreg OFFLINE  

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Posted March 29, 2014 - 10:13 PM

I've got my restored 1650 with now 3 point or rear PTO and now have the roughed up but running 1650 with the 3 point and locked up PTO.  I'm really on the fence as to what my best course of action is as far as a very slow restoration of the 3 point (funds are limited), or move the 3 point and keep the other as a parts tractor (it has a strong engine with just carb problems), or move the 3 point and keep the other as my bump around hauling tractor (again, funds are limited). 

 

My first question, the rough tractor's carb.  You must ever so slightly turn on the gas valve to get it to run.  Too much and gas squirts out all over from the carb.  The guy I bought it from said it just needs a needle valve.  What do you guys think?  I am intimidated by carbs.  I just imagine a spring releasing a parts flying everywhere.

 

Second question, I seem to remember that the second lever position for lifting and lowering the 3 point is a plugged position.  So does this mean I could take the plug out and replace it with a lever?  I assume one hydraulic hose would have to be moved over for the 3 point?  Then move the mechanical lift bars and the hydraulic cylinder?

 

Any new hydraulic cylinders that replace the one I have like from TSC or such?  If so, approximate price?

 

 

More questions to come as I get answers to these........

 

 

Thanks,

 

Reg


Edited by gtcsreg, March 29, 2014 - 10:33 PM.

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#2 coldone OFFLINE  

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Posted March 29, 2014 - 11:43 PM

I've got my restored 1650 with now 3 point or rear PTO and now have the roughed up but running 1650 with the 3 point and locked up PTO.  I'm really on the fence as to what my best course of action is as far as a very slow restoration of the 3 point (funds are limited), or move the 3 point and keep the other as a parts tractor (it has a strong engine with just carb problems), or move the 3 point and keep the other as my bump around hauling tractor (again, funds are limited). 

 

 

 

That all depends on what your plans are for the tractor. If you want to have a functioning tractor for garden work and such, then move the 3PTH over to your better tractor. I wouldnt worry with the Rear PTO untill you  get something that uses it. The swap is pretty easy, 4 bolts, 4 pins, 2 hoses, and a lever.

 

My first question, the rough tractor's carb.  You must ever so slightly turn on the gas valve to get it to run.  Too much and gas squirts out all over from the carb.  The guy I bought it from said it just needs a needle valve.  What do you guys think?  I am intimidated by carbs.  I just imagine a spring releasing a parts flying everywhere.

 

 

I used to be the same way when it came to carbs. You will just have to dive into it. Honestly, its already broke so what do you have to loose. Its a kohler engine, the manual is in the manual section and it shows how to take it apart. Rebuild kits are plentiful and not very expensive. We all are here to help when you get into a tight spot too. Getting the carb working will give you another tractor, if you have switched over the 3PTH then you are in no hurry to get it up and running so if you get hung up on something no big deal, you have time.

Second question, I seem to remember that the second lever position for lifting and lowering the 3 point is a plugged position.  So does this mean I could take the plug out and replace it with a lever?  I assume one hydraulic hose would have to be moved over for the 3 point?  Then move the mechanical lift bars and the hydraulic cylinder?

 

Any new hydraulic cylinders that replace the one I have like from TSC or such?  If so, approximate price?

 

 

The plugs are either "pipe plugs" or "cap fittings" in the existing control valve. The "pipe plugs" are just male fittings that are screwed into the holes (ports) on the valve body underside. You unscrew them and put in the correct fittings then you screw your hydrualic lines onto the fitting. The correct fittings can be transfered from your donor tractor.

 

If the Valve body already has the correct fittings in it, then they will be "capped off" with a cap fitting. It functions just like the cap on the valve stem of a tire only its all metal and bigger. You take it off then hook up your hydrualic lines from the cylinder.

 

On the 3PTH cylinder, there will be 2 lines.They have to be conected to the cylinder and valve body. Dont worry if you get them backwards, it just means the operation is reversed. No damage should be caused and to correct it you just swap the hoses around.

 

There are no replacement hydrualic cylinders unless you find used aone on ebay. Other cylinders can work but you hav to make alot of modifications to get it attached to the tractor and 3PTH.

 

Hope this helps with your decisions.

 


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#3 gtcsreg OFFLINE  

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Posted March 30, 2014 - 08:03 AM

Thanks you coldone.  I will consider those and add you questions later. :smilewink:



#4 gtcsreg OFFLINE  

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Posted April 03, 2014 - 03:02 PM

Another question, I got a lead on a scoop tote TYPE 3 point pitch scoop.  They use it on a Ford 400 ( I think slightly larger than an 8N Ford in overall size).  I'm pretty sure that would make it a category 1 hitch.  I don't suppose it would fit my category 0 but, do you guys think it would be a likely easy conversion with a little welding to have it fit my category 0 3 point on the Snapper 1650.  He says  that it's not all that big (I'd have to see it for sure).  I'd have to find a way to move the side pins in right?  I will include a picture of a category 0 of a scoop tote..

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#5 ENafziger OFFLINE  

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Posted April 03, 2014 - 03:47 PM

Another question, I got a lead on a scoop tote TYPE 3 point pitch scoop.  They use it on a Ford 400 ( I think slightly larger than an 8N Ford in overall size).  I'm pretty sure that would make it a category 1 hitch.  I don't suppose it would fit my category 0 but, do you guys think it would be a likely easy conversion with a little welding to have it fit my category 0 3 point on the Snapper 1650.  He says  that it's not all that big (I'd have to see it for sure).  I'd have to find a way to move the side pins in right?  I will include a picture of a category 0 of a scoop tote..

 

You could do it two ways...either make the scoop bucket a Cat 0, or make your tractor capable of accepting Cat 1.  The pin diameter is different (5/8" vs 3/4" I think).  The spacing between pins is only about 2" different.  There's enough side to side movement in the 3 point arms that they can accomodate either one for width.


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#6 gtcsreg OFFLINE  

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Posted April 03, 2014 - 04:14 PM

T

 

You could do it two ways...either make the scoop bucket a Cat 0, or make your tractor capable of accepting Cat 1.  The pin diameter is different (5/8" vs 3/4" I think).  The spacing between pins is only about 2" different.  There's enough side to side movement in the 3 point arms that they can accomodate either one for width.

Thank you sir! One of my best friends teaches a Machinist class at a local community college (retired journeyman machinist) and offered to help on projects like this.  Very helpful response,


Edited by gtcsreg, April 03, 2014 - 04:37 PM.


#7 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted April 03, 2014 - 04:57 PM

I'd convert the pins on the scoop to Cat 0 myself. If you change your swivel balls to Cat 1, then you would have to use bushings on all your Cat 0 stuff.


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#8 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted April 03, 2014 - 06:01 PM

I'd convert the pins on the scoop to Cat 0 myself. If you change your swivel balls to Cat 1, then you would have to use bushings on all your Cat 0 stuff.

I agree with this!


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#9 gtcsreg OFFLINE  

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Posted April 03, 2014 - 07:07 PM

I'd convert the pins on the scoop to Cat 0 myself. If you change your swivel balls to Cat 1, then you would have to use bushings on all your Cat 0 stuff.

Have no Category 0 stuff yet but category 1 stuff would probably tend to be overweight on average so yeah the pins.



#10 gtcsreg OFFLINE  

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Posted April 04, 2014 - 07:53 PM

Good news folks!  Talked to the High School buddy who's Mom bought the tractor in this picture (my Dad's) and found out that even though they traded the tractor off several years ago they kept the Scoop Tote.  He's going to look in his garage or her garage and find it for me!  I'm really, really excited!  To have such a functional piece for my 3 point and the one that belonged to Dad seems so cool.  Now the waiting game.  It was really nice to talk to the buddy again.  We live within twenty miles and hadn't run into each other for over thirty years.  DID I SAY I'M EXCITED?       :love:

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Edited by gtcsreg, April 04, 2014 - 07:58 PM.

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#11 gtcsreg OFFLINE  

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Posted April 11, 2014 - 10:21 PM

Scoop Tote located!  He found it upstairs above his garage and now he's digging it out for me.  He told me I could have it for $75 unless that was too much.  I think that's more than fair unless it's in really really bad condition.  Stored in his garage so I'm sure it's fine.  No way I want to take advantage of such a good old friend or anyone else for that matter.  Looking forward to getting it home.  I should have a couple more questions on the 3 point tomorrow.  My dream for the 1650 is getting so much closer to coming true.



#12 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted April 12, 2014 - 06:46 AM

Glad you found the Tote! Gonna have to get some pics of it for us!


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#13 gtcsreg OFFLINE  

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Posted April 12, 2014 - 07:04 AM

On moving the 3 point over, when I unplug the lever to move and when I detach the cylinder to move are they under pressure?  Will much fluid leak off?  Recommendations on fluid to refill?  Where does it get filled at?  Yeah I'm green on hydraulics.

 

Thanks,

Reg

 

Also, could some of you guys post photos of the connection you have for the top link to the rocker arm on the 3 point for these tractors?  Mines missing but I've found the category 0 top links are not hard to find but I have no way to connect it.  I can have my buddy fabricate one from a piece of salvaged metal but wondered if you can buy these anywhere? 



#14 coldone OFFLINE  

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Posted April 12, 2014 - 07:48 AM

I think there is about a pint of liquid in the cylinder. It shouldnt come out but it will leak a little. If you move the rod portion of the cylinder it will pump the fluid thats in there out. If you want the fluid out, then disconnect the hoses at the control lever, put the ends in a bucket and manually move the rod of the cylinder back and forth. There will still be some drips coming out after this. 

 

If the fluid is red it is ATF (cant remember what kind), if its golden then its motor oil (cant remember what weight).

 

Here is one way of filling the hydro

http://gardentractor...ndstrand-hydro/

 

The other way is to fill it up through the dipstick tube, this is slow and messy.

 

 

 

1655 top link 002 (Small).jpg toplink 1.jpg


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#15 gtcsreg OFFLINE  

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Posted April 12, 2014 - 03:56 PM

Glad you found the Tote! Gonna have to get some pics of it for us!

Got the Scoop Tote home.  My buddy said his Dad only used it when he built his home and the rest of the time it was in my buddies garage attic.  All the rust is surface rust and some pitting ( no holes from rust). He says the trip on the scoop works fine but as he pointed out it's spring is very rusty.  There is one ding in the cutting edge of the scoop but if I remember correctly Dad put that there.  Dad had drilled a hole in the scoop to hook and pulled trailers either by putting a hitch ball on it or by using a drift pin.  If you'll notice the Scoop Tote decal is still intact with just a knick and faded coloring.  I think this will be a very easy restoration after I get through with the dirt work needing done now.  I'll give a little effort to try to remove the ding in the blade but not at all worried if I can't get it out.  My buddy told me he kinda thought the front MF dozer blade might be at his Mom and he's going to look for it for me.   We talked about old times for way over an hour.  Found out at the end of it all He has a JD 425 with hydraulics but no 3 point.  After he retires he may look for a 3 point and if he does he wants to take pictures of this one to have one built.  His Uncle is a master welder and is going to make it for him if he does.  His Uncle said the metal would cost near $150.  He sold me this for $75 and said he was more than willing to take less.  I'd say he's the same great friend I knew from my childhood. 

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