Jump to content

Nominations for Tractor of the Month
Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
- - - - -

Allis Chalmers 312 For Free!


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 oldiron OFFLINE  

oldiron
  • Member
  • Member No: 28750
  • 34 Thanks
  • 64 posts
  • Location: PA

Posted March 21, 2014 - 01:23 AM

A neighbor of mine retired and is moving to FL, he gave me his running AC 312 with a deck and tiller last Saturday!

Its in decent shape and has had a fairly easy life tilling a small garden and cutting less than half an acre of grass. The deck has a few rust spots but is useable, the tiller has new tines, new pulleys, and a new belt. The front tires are new, the rears are a bit eaten up from using chains.
The battery was weak, and about 5 years old, so I sprung for a new battery the other day. Keep in mind he's been using this thing regularly since it was new, and it started up in his shed and drove right into mine 5 days ago with no help starting. What I noticed is that is draws the battery down over a few days, there's about a 1 amp draw on the battery with the key off. I see wires coming from under the flywheel, so I'm assuming the alternator is under the flywheel, and there's an aluminum finned block right behind the motor. Not being very familiar with these, I'm not sure where to check first? Its got no lights, nothing but a starter and amperes gauge on the dash.

Is there one part that's more likely to be the culprit than the other? The wiring in general seems to be pretty clean, and it looks pretty much un-tampered with.

I called the original owner and he said he never really noticed a problem with it but he said he did keep a battery maintainer hooked up to it because it would go months without use at times. So that tells me it either had the problem for a while or he just never noticed it since he kept it plugged in.


  • Alc, hamman, boyscout862 and 2 others have said thanks

#2 MH81 ONLINE  

MH81

    Proud to be Deplorable

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 802
  • 27,336 Thanks
  • 28,645 posts
  • Location: N. W. PA

Posted March 21, 2014 - 02:44 AM

Is the problem still there with the new battery? You mention a 1Amp draw, is that measured or indicated on the ammeter in the dash?

Sounds like a nice gift, congrats.
  • hamman said thank you

#3 hamman ONLINE  

hamman

    Homelite Owner Extraordinaire

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1733
  • 5,630 Thanks
  • 2,586 posts
  • Location: Michigan

Posted March 21, 2014 - 05:54 AM

Congratulations on the tractor. I had a Sears Custom 10XL that was doing that. I found that there was awire on the switch that was touching the switch surround and it was drawing power that way. Might check all the wiring and see if that could be it. Post some pictures of your tractor.     As you know, We Like Pictures.

Roger.


  • VintageIronCollector said thank you

#4 KennyP ONLINE  

KennyP

    FORDoholic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2253
  • 28,522 Thanks
  • 39,742 posts
  • Location: Collinsville, Oklahoma

Posted March 21, 2014 - 06:43 AM

Congrats on the new addition! Sounds like it is time to check all the wiring. Could be an abrasion in the insulation some where. May be fun to find!



#5 oldiron OFFLINE  

oldiron
  • Member
  • Member No: 28750
  • 34 Thanks
  • 64 posts
  • Location: PA

Posted March 21, 2014 - 11:32 AM

I've swapped the new battery with one from one of my other tractors, the battery seems fine in another machine. The draw is shown when I connect an amp meter between the positive battery post and the battery cable, with the key off. I don't see any stray wires or obvious shorts, and I think a dead short would be more than a 1 amp draw. With the key off, when I connect the battery, I get a big spark. If I disconnect the battery, and reconnect it after a minute or so, I get a loud snap and spark, yet if I pull it right back off, then put it back, it doesn't do it as bad.

The starter draws very little, maybe 120 amps tops even in the cold air. Do these have a voltage regulator?

When its running, battery voltage reads 13.97 volts. Standing battery volts are 12.59. If I disconnect the battery it doesn't go dead.

It takes about four days for the volts to drop low enough it won't start without a jump or charge.

I'll try disconnecting the ignition switch to see if the draw goes away.
 



#6 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

New.Canadian.DB.Owner
  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 10178
  • 2,224 Thanks
  • 1,451 posts
  • Location: Trenton, Ontario, Canada

Posted March 21, 2014 - 01:25 PM

One thing to try is disconnecting all the wires from the battery and then adding them back one at a time to see when the draw starts.  Flow that wire doing the same thing at each junction you come to.  You'll find it eventually.



#7 oldiron OFFLINE  

oldiron
  • Member
  • Member No: 28750
  • 34 Thanks
  • 64 posts
  • Location: PA

Posted March 21, 2014 - 01:44 PM

There's only two wires on the battery, one on each terminal.

the ground wire goes to the chassis and engine, and the positive cable goes to the starter solenoid post.



#8 VintageIronCollector ONLINE  

VintageIronCollector

    Immersed in Tractors

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 33118
  • 1,275 Thanks
  • 1,770 posts
  • Location: New Freedom, PA

Posted March 21, 2014 - 03:00 PM

Post some pictures of your tractor.     As you know, We Like Pictures.

Roger.

:iagree: :picsoritsnotyours: :wewantpics:


  • hamman said thank you

#9 skunkhome OFFLINE  

skunkhome

    Member

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 8044
  • 322 Thanks
  • 455 posts
  • Location: Louisiana

Posted March 22, 2014 - 12:19 AM

It could be that you have a wire with compromised insulation that is allowing a soft short that drains the battery. Does it still flat the battery if you unplug the ignition switch? If it goes down there is a soft short somewhere in your primary feed. Maybe in your main breaker or starter solinoid since there is always voltage present at those points even with the key off. If not, try using a jumper wire to attach only the battery feed to the "b" terminal on switch. If that pulls the battery down after a couple of days you have a soft short in your switch. I would not suspect circuits down stream of the starter/ignition switch since the battery is being drained with the key in the off position.

Edited by skunkhome, March 22, 2014 - 12:27 AM.


#10 oldiron OFFLINE  

oldiron
  • Member
  • Member No: 28750
  • 34 Thanks
  • 64 posts
  • Location: PA

Posted March 22, 2014 - 02:12 AM

I unhooked the ignition switch, hooked up the battery, and I can watch the ammeter jump slightly to the discharge side. If i remove power from the second wire on the solenoid the draw goes away. It doesn't seem to matter whether the ignition. switch is plugged in or not. I've got a diagram for one of these but its not a perfect match, mine does not have points, its got some type of breakerless ignition that I've never seen before.



#11 skunkhome OFFLINE  

skunkhome

    Member

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 8044
  • 322 Thanks
  • 455 posts
  • Location: Louisiana

Posted March 27, 2014 - 09:21 PM

The second wire? You should have a small wire attached to the large positive pole along with the heavy lead coming from the battery. Then there is a third (second heavy) wire going to the starter. And then there is a forth wire ( telegraph/trigger wire coming from "s" pole on starter switch) attached to a third small pole. Which wire? And When you say "remove power" do you mean, disconnect from solenoid?

Edited by skunkhome, March 27, 2014 - 09:52 PM.


#12 oldiron OFFLINE  

oldiron
  • Member
  • Member No: 28750
  • 34 Thanks
  • 64 posts
  • Location: PA

Posted March 31, 2014 - 09:59 AM

My solenoid has three big wires, one to the battery, another to the dash area, to what appears to be a circuit breaker, and onthe second post, a wire to the starter. On the small terminal, there's a purple wire that goes back towards the transaxle.

Removing the wire that goes to the back of the dash seems to stop the draw on the battery, that wire gets warm if left connected with the battery terminal on.



#13 skunkhome OFFLINE  

skunkhome

    Member

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 8044
  • 322 Thanks
  • 455 posts
  • Location: Louisiana

Posted March 31, 2014 - 05:15 PM

Ok the smaller wire that is connected to the solenoid post with the positive lead from the battery is your main lead for power to your electrical system. There is apparently a soft short in that circuit. It should be protected by a 20 A circuit breaker. My first suspects would be the circuit breaker or the ammeter. Check the breaker and see if it is hot. If it is hot it could be that there is an internal short in the breaker or a short in the ammeter. You can get a new breaker at most auto parts stores just don't exceed 20Amps. If the circuit breaker is cool than you must have a tiny break in the insulation on that wire. It could be that your ammeter is shorting out or even the metal bracket that holds it in the dash has worn a small hole through the rubber grommets under the nuts. If those rubber grommets are bad or crusher it will allow the wiring to short out through the ammeter housing. My brother put a new ammeter on his 716 the other day and he lost the rubber grommet and there was a fireworks show because he created a hard short across the ammeter casing to the dash. If both those check out then I would look at the wiring and make sure the insulation hasn't been compromised. I looked for a wiring diagram on the 300 series and the only one I could find was horrid. I understand the wiring on these tractors and I couldn't understand the diagram. However I did find one in the 400 series and it is virtually identical to the 300 at least in regard to that circuit.
ee707eaa7471f19f61767214d55435b5_zps5735

Edited by skunkhome, March 31, 2014 - 05:58 PM.


#14 oldiron OFFLINE  

oldiron
  • Member
  • Member No: 28750
  • 34 Thanks
  • 64 posts
  • Location: PA

Posted March 31, 2014 - 11:42 PM

I by passed the breaker and ammeter with a new breaker and wire and the draw is gone, I tried just changing the breaker, and the new breaker kept clicking off, I disconnected the ammeter and the draw seems to be gone. The ammeter has 100 ohms of resistance across the terminals and about 112K to ground on both terminals. Its badly rusted on the back, I had to cut both wires off and replace the ends. The studs are rusted and scaly. Can I just put a Stewart Warner gauge in there from a car?

To be honest, I'd rather have a volt meter in there than an ammeter. I'd rather be able to read battery volts to see if the battery is being maintained or depleted as it runs. It would also make for a good quick check on when to charge the battery over the winter.

I may still leave the battery disconnect at the terminal, I sort of like being able to isolate the battery when in storage, especially for charging.


  • toppop52 said thank you

#15 skunkhome OFFLINE  

skunkhome

    Member

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 8044
  • 322 Thanks
  • 455 posts
  • Location: Louisiana

Posted April 01, 2014 - 01:55 PM

I feel some what gratified you found it. Congratulations!
Yes you can use the standard BW ammeter but try to find one with 30 A negative and positive. Otherwise you might not be able to see much needle movement.




Top