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What Would You Do.


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#1 Jacksdad OFFLINE  

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Posted February 24, 2014 - 09:52 PM

I feel kinda weird asking this but... here goes. My starter went out on my 12. I've priced starters and got prices anywhere from $50 up to $230. I know rebuilding it would be about the same margin. What would you, The Massey Ferguson Nation, do? Replace or Rebuild?

     

The fifty dollar starter didn't get the greatest reviews, I have already put one on there before months ago thinking the original one was bad. Grasping at straws, I put one on. I figured Fifty bucks couldn't hurt.(you get what you pay for.) After a few uses it failed. It had a warranty, 1 year, It was voided due to stray welding spatter on the case. Their word against mine. I lost. I put the original starter back on it worked fine for a few months.

 

   And just as the foot of snow fell and I bladed up my rig, the starter failed. It spun very slow and the Bendix failed to shoot out and spin the flywheel. So shovel in hand in hand i tackled the driveway. I enjoy the outdoors, but the world looks better from the seat of a Massey.

 

Am I looking at this wrong? Could the starter be bad or am I missing something?


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#2 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted February 24, 2014 - 10:04 PM

What is the voltage at the starter?
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#3 Jacksdad OFFLINE  

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Posted February 24, 2014 - 10:18 PM

0.0. I smell what you're stepping in. Bad solenoid perhaps?



#4 superaben OFFLINE  

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Posted February 24, 2014 - 10:58 PM

My way of testing a starter is not scientific.  I hook a connector from the battery ground to the case, and then touch the hot to the correct post.  That overrides all solenoids, wiring and switches.  If it still spins slow, "Houston, we have a problem."

 

Magnets can crack in the fields.  That is common.  Brushes are worn down to far (a little more uncommon) or the armature contact with the brushes is corroded/corrupted/filthy.  Bearings can be too sloppy to maintain proper clearances. 

 

I usually replace starters, just because by the time I rebuild it it is not worth my time when I could buy a new one.  That is just my opinion, though.  Usually when I have a starter going toast, it is toast.  They don't go half way. 

 

However.

 

If you have a good starter shop nearby that knows small equipment starters and can rebuild it reliably and cheaply, then by all means let them help.  I have one nearby me. 

 

FWIW, I now have to throw my hat in the ring for prices. 

 

The part number is 33835.  I have a new one for $159, Stens MegaFire.  Stens makes a very good starter with very good reliability.   I use their starters.   They have a one year warranty. 

 

I also have an Oregon aftermarket version available, $149. 

 

Ben W.


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#5 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted February 25, 2014 - 06:01 AM

0.0. I smell what you're stepping in. Bad solenoid perhaps?

It could be, it could also be completely shorted... But if that was the case, you would see smoke each time you try to start it.
I also use a derivative of Ben's system above. I usually throw a test light or voltmeter into the mix, but not always.

Under the FWIW category, a lower voltage battery can cook a starter. I have an example of a starter that melted internally thanks to a PO because of the increased amps from this situation coupled with extended cranking due to a bad (dirty) carb.

When she was cranking over, was it fast enough and did the tractor start / run OK?
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#6 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted February 25, 2014 - 06:11 AM

I think it's worth pulling the end cap off the starter and looking at the state of the commutator and brushes. If the brushes are worn out and/ or the commutator is scored or just plain filthy you will not get the current flow needed to generate the torque to turn the engine over. A good cleaning and a new set of brushes may get you going for a while. You also need a good connection from the starter frame back to the battery - terminal. If this connection is bad you are sunk before you start!

 

 

What is the voltage at the starter?

Alan, that's a great Avatar picture!


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#7 Oldford OFFLINE  

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Posted February 25, 2014 - 06:32 AM

"What would I do" ...

 

First as others say i'd run juice right to starter eliminate everything in between, use car jumpers.  Usually battery, wiring, switch, relay/solenoid quit before starter.  Most these things can find at napa pretty cheap

 

If it's the starter i'd remove run juice on bench see if it spins.  Sometimes just the bendix needs grease.  If internal i'd take it apart, nothing to lose at that point, see what's inside

 

If brushes new under 20 bucks.  Trick is find out what brand, Prestolite, Bosch...?? Old auto electric guy told me only 2 or 3 different types from the old days so brushes easy to find if you know what brand.  Easy enough to replace brushes if you can find them, also need to clean armature/lube bearings. 

 

If no old starter guy nearby i'd look around some of these old guys still work out of garage, ask around.  Maybe next town over, maybe mail order.  Usually if you buy brushes he'll put them in pretty cheap but is easy do yourself.  If you can't then mail it but then getting expensive maybe time to buy new sell old one on ebay for parts

 

"What would i do" ... i have a plow truck and backup tractor have time take things apart.  Have more time than money to spend

 

p/s i don't have a MF this is just what i do.  Old starters can go 40 years or more depends on brand and how much use over time.  New brushes can go another 10 years or more if parts not worn.  Tractor, truck, harley, outboard, old american starters basically the same 80's-down.  90s-up asian internals don't last so long need replace whole thing


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#8 motobreeder ONLINE  

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Posted February 25, 2014 - 08:51 AM

Not helping with your primary question, but as others suggested, is there an issue causing the starters to fail?

 

I believe the HH120 engine has a decompression bump to assist with starting.  A strong starter may be able to overcome a full compression stroke, but may be over-worked.



#9 oldedeeres ONLINE  

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Posted February 25, 2014 - 04:31 PM

I'm with the above on this. Is there an underlying cause for the starter failures? Maybe something just not lined up correctly? Sometimes it doesn't take much to throw things out of kilter.



#10 coldone OFFLINE  

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Posted February 25, 2014 - 08:30 PM

What would I do? The starter is already broke so I would take it apart and see if it could be fixed.



#11 Jacksdad OFFLINE  

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Posted February 26, 2014 - 08:54 PM

I tested the starter. It is shot. I tested it myself using techniques mentioned in this thread. I also, just to be sure, had Napa test it. I have decided since, as Oldford put it, "Time outweighs money" at the moment. I will take it apart and try to fix it myself. I'll keep you guys posted on my results. Thanks for all of the help. It feels like I have a bunch of older brothers looking out for me.


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#12 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted February 26, 2014 - 09:01 PM

Just watch when you take the end cap with the brushes off. There is spring loaded stuff in there.
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#13 DH1 ONLINE  

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Posted February 26, 2014 - 09:05 PM

Another thing you could do is find a starter/generator pulley off of an early MF10 or MF12 tractor and put it on your engine. It will fit on the ring gear flywheels.

masseys 026.jpg

 

This will give it a manual rope start that you can use if needed.

 


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#14 WNYTractorTinkerer ONLINE  

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Posted February 26, 2014 - 09:21 PM

I tested the starter. It is shot. I tested it myself using techniques mentioned in this thread. I also, just to be sure, had Napa test it. I have decided since, as Oldford put it, "Time outweighs money" at the moment. I will take it apart and try to fix it myself. I'll keep you guys posted on my results. Thanks for all of the help. It feels like I have a bunch of older brothers looking out for me.

I'd just buy one of these..  HERE  

 

There is also a link there to a $60 one w/ free shipping..  Amazon is my friend!

 

I'd still take it apart to look around and see what is going on in there..  Try this-  Pull the long cap bolts off and wrap it around the starter& move the starter like so..  Flip the starter/bag over (end cap on the bottom) and pull the starter up by the armature..  The 4 brush springs should stay in the bag and not flit about the floor!  As always, take some pictures for other folks to see how things look..  There are tons of starter rebuild videos on YT or ask in here for help if you need!  Good Luck!



#15 Jacksdad OFFLINE  

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Posted February 27, 2014 - 11:19 PM

Another thing you could do is find a starter/generator pulley off of an early MF10 or MF12 tractor and put it on your engine. It will fit on the ring gear flywheels.

attachicon.gifmasseys 026.jpg

 

This will give it a manual rope start that you can use if needed.

I never thought about that.






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