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#76 Pager450n OFFLINE  

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Posted April 02, 2014 - 11:44 AM

I think you're going to have a lot of fun... and I think you need to check out my 400 thread...

 

 

Ok, had to print out your thread to have a place to jot down questions to ask ya as I go throught this build. 

 

I do have a couple already if you dont mind me asking?

 

I saw that the PO installed the oil cooler on the LH engine cover, where did you end up placing it?

How has the driveshaft been so far with that rubber joint?  Would you have gone to a u joint on both ends?

Wiring harness, would you recomend buying a used 332, 430, 445 to go off of or build your own.

What are the three lights for on the dash?  Pre-heat, oil pressure, voltage?

Do you have a listing of the guages you used?

Size of your radiator?

And finally, how low did the oil pan sit in the final install?  I run a 35 tiller, so I need a low install.  Granted it will be custom, but im just curious about how it looks overall.

 

Thanks again for your posting on the 400. 


Edited by Pager450n, April 02, 2014 - 11:45 AM.


#77 twostep OFFLINE  

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Posted April 02, 2014 - 12:55 PM

Ask away, that is what these threads are for!!

 

Ok, had to print out your thread to have a place to jot down questions to ask ya as I go throught this build. 

 

I do have a couple already if you dont mind me asking?

 

I saw that the PO installed the oil cooler on the LH engine cover, where did you end up placing it? Yeah, another hack job by the PO. the welds were bad and there was nothing actually moving air over the cooler... so what is the point. But as of now that is the only part of my hydraulic system that is still undecided. There really is no room for that cooler under the hood. It's just too thick and long to fit anywhere. So for now I've got it mounted under the belly of the tractor. It gets air movement off of the hydro's fan. I will work it for a while and monitor how hot it gets. If it needs more air flow I will swap it out for a flat auto transmission cooler and mount it in front of my rad.

How has the driveshaft been so far with that rubber joint?  Would you have gone to a u joint on both ends? It's fine so far the way it is, so far. I hope it stays that way since it's simple and works.

Wiring harness, would you recomend buying a used 332, 430, 445 to go off of or build your own. The PO had used the 322 harness. Automotive wire harness design is my profession so I made 90% of my own. Basically, anything that didn't layout like I wanted it, I replaced.

What are the three lights for on the dash?  Pre-heat, oil pressure, voltage? No preheat (mine is gas), mine are oil pressure, water temp and charging voltage.

Do you have a listing of the guages you used? I don't have any guages installed yet. but I plan to install a oil pressure and water temp guage. Oil pressure should be simple but the water temp will be more difficult due to the availability of a temp sensor to replace the temp switch.

Size of your radiator? I can get some dimensions for you but it is the factory 322 radiator.

And finally, how low did the oil pan sit in the final install?  I run a 35 tiller, so I need a low install.  Granted it will be custom, but im just curious about how it looks overall. Again I'll have to measure it for you but basically the crank is inline with the hydro input.

 

Thanks again for your posting on the 400. 



#78 Pager450n OFFLINE  

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Posted April 05, 2014 - 08:35 AM

Thanks twostep!

I'll be working on this project now that my Jacobson sold yesterday, woo hoo!

I might be getting a new john this month, crossing my fingers . My wife still shakes her head, wondering what I'm doing with my time.

We, I mean UTSmitty, turned down the driveshaft for the l3e to about 4" overall, and got the three holes.
As far as the driveshaft, I'm toying with the idea of a pto style shaft, one that's splined and can separate into two pieces when removed. A guy on WFM has done this with a 12" keyed shaft, and a coupler. I just hate fishing the shaft through the mess and taking the pan off and everything else just to disconnect the driveshaft.

Will post pics soon
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#79 twostep OFFLINE  

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Posted April 05, 2014 - 08:14 PM

As far as the driveshaft, I'm toying with the idea of a pto style shaft, one that's splined and can separate into two pieces when removed. A guy on WFM has done this with a 12" keyed shaft, and a coupler. I just hate fishing the shaft through the mess...

I like that idea. It is a huge pain but also I look at like this... I shouldn't have to mess with that shaft often (at all), so when I do, I'm probably going to be doing a full inspection anyway. It does suck during the repower though.



#80 Pager450n OFFLINE  

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Posted April 05, 2014 - 11:10 PM

I was also thinking about when I will have to change belts, well for a five year period. It would be nice to be able to have some play to were I can just unbolt the driveshaft froth e pulley and slip a new belt on. This would allow the engine to stay bolted and not have to remove the driveshaft as well.

Would you stick with a solid driveshaft, or would a splined (21 tooth at least) expandable driveshaft be better?

#81 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted April 06, 2014 - 04:36 AM

I was also thinking about when I will have to change belts, well for a five year period. It would be nice to be able to have some play to were I can just unbolt the driveshaft froth e pulley and slip a new belt on. This would allow the engine to stay bolted and not have to remove the driveshaft as well.

Would you stick with a solid driveshaft, or would a splined (21 tooth at least) expandable driveshaft be better?

Ryan

 

A lot of people use the linked belts with good results... Saves having to undo the driveline.

 

As for the adapter.  It's all turned and cut off, and the holes drilled.  HOWEVER, the holes are very close to the flare of the adapter, so it will need socket head cap screws.  It takes a 10mm x 1.25mm pitch, 30 mm (1.25") long.  I couldn't find any here in the area--even at Cal Ranch, so I ordered some from McMaster-Carr--I'll probably need some for my machine as well. I ordered washers for socket head cap screws as well as they are the smallest diameter of any of them.

 

I'll have to relieve the flare slightly for the bolts and star washers, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

I'll post some pictures in the morning.... I'm going to bed, now.

 

Smitty



#82 Pager450n OFFLINE  

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Posted April 11, 2014 - 03:20 PM

Sorry for the delay, since the sun has come out and temps rising, mama has me doing garden, landscaping and prepping the babys new room.

 

Heres a pic I snapped as UT Smitty and his friend turned down a lip to fit the shaft to the pulley.

 

 

IMG_5130-L.jpg



#83 Pager450n OFFLINE  

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Posted April 11, 2014 - 03:21 PM

Then we tried to utilize the existing three hole layout to secure the shaft.  UTSmitty took it home since i do not have a drillpress ( on my shopping list as well as a welder).

IMG_5131-L.jpg



#84 Pager450n OFFLINE  

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Posted April 20, 2014 - 11:48 PM

Thanks to UTSmitty, my driveshaft pto is working flawlessly. Now my attention is towards the flywheel side. If anyone might help, this is what I have to work with.
5" dia within the flywheel face that I can get into the mounting face. Any thoughts on a stub shaft with an approx dia.

Will post pics of the goodies that came in the mail.

#85 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted April 21, 2014 - 08:15 AM

Well, I'm glad it worked out, Ryan.

I took several pictures of the process, and have included them here for those interested in how we did it. This was a first time for me, so chime in if you have any suggestions.

NOTE: I referred to the bolt size as 8x1.25mm. It is actually 10x1.25mm and uses a 8MM Allen wrench.



A friend of mine has a company that re-furbishes medical lasers. The guy is super smart, and has made many modifications and improvements to legacy systems to help them function better, as well as produce parts that are no longer available from the manufacturers. He does prototyping and builds the parts in a his little machine shop with a Haas CNC turret lathe, a Haas vertical mill, a Bridgeport knee mill, an engine lathe, and other assorted tools. He has allowed me to use his manual machines in the past, and offered to machine this on the CNC lathe to save time and get the best accuracy.

Anyway, we needed to machine the shaft diameter on the coupler down to a usable diameter for the JD400 drive shaft--1.000" if I remember correctly. We first tried the Haas CNC lathe, but couldn't find a pre-programmed routine that would move the cutting tool around the flange on the end.

JD400 PTO Turn 1.jpg

We finally chucked the part in the engine lathe. I machined a step in the flange of the adapter that was about .008" smaller than the counterbore on the pulley--I wanted to keep it closer to .005" but I turned the crossfeed dial a little too much at the end.

I then turned the shaft down to about .005" under nominal diameter and 2" long. We got a bit of taper bBecause we had to chuck the part by the end of the shaft, and couldn't use a center in the other end. I don't think it will cause a problem as Ryan will probably have to trim some more off the shaft once he get's his U-joint or whatever coupler he decides to use.

JD400 PTO Turn 2.jpg JD400 PTO Turn 3.jpg

I used my abrasive cut-off saw to remove the end of the shaft that was chucked in the lathe, then put a slight bevel on the end with my grinder.

JD400 PTO Turn 4.jpg

We had already elongated one existing hole as shown previously. I now had to locate the other 2 holes as precisely as possible. The method I came up with was to put a bolt through the existing hole into the pulley (8mm x 1.25mm pitch) to locate the shaft adapter, then use transfer punches to mark the location.

My transfer punches are English sizes, and the closest punch was a little sloppy in the hole. Transfer punches are typically about .025" undersized anyway, and you need some means to position it more accurately in the hole. I took electrical tape, and wrapped two layers around the punch. That made it too tight, so I unwrapped one layer. Then, to eliminate the tape overlap, I used my knife to cut the end right at the starting edge of the tape. This gave a 100% wrap of consistent thickness.

JD400 PTO Turn 5.jpg

To help eliminate any other variability, I used a small square to line up the punch before I hit it. I could only line up one side, using the machined surface of the pulley. I used my calibrated eye balls to made sure that the punch was straight from side to side by looking across the narrow edge of the square--similar to centering the front sight of a gun on a target. Then a light tap with a hammer and repeated on the second hole.

JD400 PTO Turn 6A.jpg

Before drilling the holes, I lined up my drill press spindle to the table, using a length of steel rod and a square. Since the marks were on the side opposite the flange, I used a new vice jaw with a vertical "V" groove in my machinist vice to hold the adapter.

I drilled a pilot hole using a 3/16" drill, then drilled to size--I found a letter drill that was .005" larger than the bolt diameter-the "Y" drill if I remember correctly. I did this two weeks ago, and I've slept since then so my memory has failed me--guess I should have written it down. :wallbanging:

I dug out some 8X1.25mm bolts from my stash and installed them in the holes. I had to make judicious use of a round file as the holes were a little tight and one of the bolts wouldn't start, but I soon had all three bolts screwed in.

The next challenge was that the heads of the hex-headed bolts were too large for the hole location--they hit the side of the tapered side of the adapter, and wouldn't screw in all the way. I didn't want to turn much more from the side as the adapter is a casting with a hollow center on the flange side and I may have ended up weakening the metal.

The obvious solution was to use socket-headed screws. A quick search of Mc Master-Carr turned up a package of 8x1.25mm screws approximately 1 1/4" long. Regular split washers were larger in diameter than the heads of the screws, so I used an external star washer.

As it turned out, the screw heads were still too large.

I resolved this by setting my drill press to the highest speed, and chucking up a 3/4" diameter abrasive stone. I placed the flange on the table and brought the stone down to where it just touched the edge of the flange. I then ground against the tapered side of the casting by pushing the adapter laterally against the spinning stone. The bottom of the stone kept rounding off, so I trued it several times by holding the stone against the side of the grinding wheel on my Baldor grinder and spinning the stone in my hand as I trued it up.

This process ended up grinding a shallow arc into the tapered side that permitted the screws to be fastened all the way down.

After I'd trued the stone a few times, I found that the drill chuck kept me from going in as far as needed. So, I put the shaft of the stone in the flange hole, then chucked it up and ground from the top side of the stone to finish off the cutouts. All in all it worked pretty good.

After I fastened the adapter to the pulley, I chucked the shaft in my little HF 7x10 lathe. I wanted to run a dial indicator over the pulley and the adapter shaft to ensure they were concentric. I found about .003" variance, so that was good to go.

JD400 PTO Turn 7.jpg JD400 PTO Turn 8.jpg

I also wanted to see if the assembly was balanced as there is a pocket machined out of part of the pulley. The lathe has infinitely variable control, and goes up to 2500 rpm. I had tweaked the pots in the controller so it turned at about 20 rpm at it's lowest setting--this allowed me to start out slow and build up speed gradually.

I found that there was quite a bit of vibration above 1,500 rpm--however, I could only chuck about 1" of the shaft in the lathe, and all the mass was hanging at the other end--which would be closest to the crankshaft when installed so I figured it wouldn't be a problem when on the engine.

I told Ryan to check the shaft after he installed it on the engine and see if there was excessive runout, etc. From his comments above, I take it that everything worked fine.

Anyway, there you have it. Feel free to ask questions or make suggestions--I'm by no means an expert at this.

Regards,

Smitty

Edited by Utah Smitty, April 22, 2014 - 07:00 AM.


#86 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted April 21, 2014 - 08:21 AM

Thanks to UTSmitty, my driveshaft pto is working flawlessly. Now my attention is towards the flywheel side. If anyone might help, this is what I have to work with.
5" dia within the flywheel face that I can get into the mounting face. Any thoughts on a stub shaft with an approx dia.

Will post pics of the goodies that came in the mail.

 

Ryan

 

There's another flanged adapter on eBay. I think it's big enough for the recess in the flywheel.  It has 5 bolt holes, but we should be able to do the same thing we did with the front PTO adapter.  Here's the link:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121152802797

 

Let me know if I can help.

 

Smitty



#87 Pager450n OFFLINE  

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Posted April 21, 2014 - 11:13 PM

UTSmitty,

 I was looking at that today.  I have asked about the specs, 1 1/8" shaft, 6" overall Dia of the flange.  So......if your up for it, im game, and will pick it up.  On the downside for this project, I might be getting another John tonight!!!! Hopefully it wont be too long and I can bring him home soon, been waiting close to 9 months now.

 

Plus i need to post the pic of the two items for the 400

mounted work by Smitty, thanks again!

IMG_5260-L.jpg

 

New radiator that I got in the mail thanks to feebay

IMG_5264-L.jpg

 

inlet, outlet looks like 1 1/8", I dont have calipers to get the exact od, but is very close to the L3E connections.

IMG_5263-L.jpg


Edited by Pager450n, April 21, 2014 - 11:14 PM.


#88 Pager450n OFFLINE  

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Posted April 21, 2014 - 11:24 PM

Now here is where I am sitting for cooling purposes.

I picked up a elec fan for an a/c system in a honda accord (1990 or so) that will hopefully cool the radiator.  See below.  Local store had it for $26 give or take, then they took 60% off.  So, regardless it was a good buy and fits really well.

IMG_5266-L.jpg

 

 

slimming, I like it!

IMG_5267-L.jpg

 

 

comparison to the original.

IMG_5268-L.jpg

 

So, here is a question.  Will a fan with say eight blades compared to my four handle the load of pulling air easier?  I run airboats on the great salt lake for duck hunting and we have several boats with jsut 3 blades.  There are a few with 4, but only 1 with a hyperdrive 8 blade.  He does well, but not have pulling power as the others.  So, with that said, should I be fine with this option?

 

 

If not, I either have to find another fan or get a pulley system similar to a groundsmaster that goes up and over.   But once again, running problem is the room I have, and I do not want to stretch the frame, dont have the time nor the energy.

 

Any thoughts would be greatlly appreciated.

 

Only items lacking before the transplant.

- engine mounts

-air cleaner

-radiator plumbing

-elec harness

fuel filter setup

key, with glow plug pre heat (similar to my kubota)

drive shaft, possible two piece.

pto for front dual pulley

muffler

rear hydro line kit :D


Edited by Pager450n, April 21, 2014 - 11:26 PM.


#89 Pager450n OFFLINE  

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Posted April 21, 2014 - 11:45 PM

Just  thought, could I put the old fan to the front pto pulley?  Not sure if I would have to raise the engine so the fan would clear, plus if it would affect the affect of the fan, push or puller?



#90 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted April 22, 2014 - 06:13 AM

Just  thought, could I put the old fan to the front pto pulley?  Not sure if I would have to raise the engine so the fan would clear, plus if it would affect the affect of the fan, push or puller?

I don't know if direct mounting would work, but maybe put a pulley and astub shaft with pulley and bearing just above it--run linked fan belt so you don't have to disconnect shaft to change the belt.
also, there's an industrial type air cleaner on eBay for about $50, incl shipping. I'll send you the link tonight.


Smitty




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