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Options For New Heart In Jd400


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#61 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted March 30, 2014 - 05:10 PM

That's the radiator I'm using in my Bush Hog HD-12 diesel conversion.  My engine being just a 14hp, the 2 core is plenty, but that radiator also comes in a 3 core version:  HERE


Thanks, Daniel--I figured I'd want a 3 core radiator for a 20 hp diesel...

Smitty

#62 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted March 30, 2014 - 05:17 PM

So does the K3D in the 322D Toro. Wonder if the pulleys are the same?


Yeah, I wondered about that, too. Seems to me the pulley has bolts for a driveshaft yoke cast into it.

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#63 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted March 30, 2014 - 05:22 PM

The one problem I would run into by flipping the tranny is for the front PTO, and it would run CCW.  If I didnt have the 35A tiller, I wouldnt hesitate to flip the tranny and get the radiator in the front.   I need to get the engine in so I can start my search for the radiator needed.
 
If this dang Mitsu used four bolt patterns on its pulleys and flywheel, I wouldnt have this isssue


If you drive the front PTO off the front of the engine, the PTO would turn clockwise--do you need it to run CW or CCW?

Smitty

#64 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted March 30, 2014 - 05:30 PM

I dug into the stash last night and found a kohler stub that is roughly 7" long w/ a 1" od keyed shaft.  It will work great IF I can get it tunred down enough on the under to have it seat into the counterbore.  It looks like it only needs an 1/8" or so, now I need to find someone to turn it down for me. 
 
 
 
IMG_5116-L.jpg
 
Would i be ok using this on the pulley side of the engine?  This will work as far as clearance from the fan and driveshaft coupler, just not sure about that weight hanging on this drive pulley


I have access to an engine lathe... don't know how true it runs 'cause it's only a 3-jaw. It's in North Salt Lake, so it's close by.
Let me talk to the owner--we could probably do it this weekend.

Smitty

#65 Pager450n OFFLINE  

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Posted March 30, 2014 - 06:48 PM

Chris,
I might look into a pto stub off of a kohler kt17 or the k532. They are both short, and would work. Just thinking how much clearance I will need for the driveshaft and radiator.

#66 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted March 30, 2014 - 11:22 PM

 

 

I have access to an engine lathe... don't know how true it runs 'cause it's only a 3-jaw

Most 3 jaw chucks have a run out of less than .004 unless it is getting worn or your spindle bearings are loose. I do most of my machining on a 3 jaw chuck and have had no problems. One thing that helps is to mark your work piece and the chuck so the part is always returned to the lathe in the same position.

Good luck.


Edited by Cvans, March 30, 2014 - 11:23 PM.

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#67 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted April 01, 2014 - 11:44 AM

Most 3 jaw chucks have a run out of less than .004 unless it is getting worn or your spindle bearings are loose. I do most of my machining on a 3 jaw chuck and have had no problems. One thing that helps is to mark your work piece and the chuck so the part is always returned to the lathe in the same position.

Good luck.

Thanks Chris.  That's a good suggestion.  I'm not sure of the wear on the lathe... but I can run a dial indicator on the chuck to see what runout there is.  You mentioned < .004" runout--is this small enough that it won't cause a problem when machining the flywheel pulley?

 

Smitty



#68 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted April 01, 2014 - 12:01 PM

I wouldn't worry about it. Especially if your going to be running belts. But you can turn .004 into .008 in a hurry if you don't keep returning the piece to the chuck the same way. The following is easier to do than explain. Just remember to check the run-out each time you put the piece back in the chuck. If you turn the piece end for end you may have to rotate it 180 degs. in the chuck to keep it centered. I hope that made sense?  If you take your time and keep checking things you won't have any problems. It's when I get in a hurry that things seem to go down hill.  


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#69 Pager450n OFFLINE  

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Posted April 02, 2014 - 08:19 AM

Now I had a chance to look over a 430 at a local shop.  It gave me an idea as far as laying the engine out.  TH e430s run with a radiator at front, with the radiator fan running not on the water pump, but on a pulley up front.  If I were to configure the layout so that the engine is pushed as far back, still allowing air to pass the pulley side, and then place the radiator up front.  That would allow the for a larger radiator up front.   

With that being said, I can find a radiator with a electric fan, or find a way to run the draw fan off the flywheel.  I will still need to run the manual PTO of the flywheel so, I might be able to lay the radiator at an angle.  I have found one radiator for a snowmobile that can lay at an angle some being 2 deep, but no 3 deep.  They do come with the elec fan and sensor.

 

 

What do you think?



#70 twostep OFFLINE  

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Posted April 02, 2014 - 10:38 AM

 

What do you think?

I think you're going to have a lot of fun... and I think you need to check out my 400 thread...

 

If I could have found a 430/755 hood for a decent price I would have stretched my tractor to give more room. Pushed the engine forward and put that radiator behind it so that I could have use factory mechanical fan. Instead I just shoehorned the rad in with a 10" electrical fan.


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#71 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted April 02, 2014 - 10:39 AM

Now I had a chance to look over a 430 at a local shop.  It gave me an idea as far as laying the engine out.  TH e430s run with a radiator at front, with the radiator fan running not on the water pump, but on a pulley up front.  If I were to configure the layout so that the engine is pushed as far back, still allowing air to pass the pulley side, and then place the radiator up front.  That would allow the for a larger radiator up front.   

With that being said, I can find a radiator with a electric fan, or find a way to run the draw fan off the flywheel.  I will still need to run the manual PTO of the flywheel so, I might be able to lay the radiator at an angle.  I have found one radiator for a snowmobile that can lay at an angle some being 2 deep, but no 3 deep.  They do come with the elec fan and sensor.

 

 

What do you think?

Ryan

 

I don't think there's a snowmobile radiator that will give enough cooling for your diesel.  Remember that snowmobiles are made to run in cold temperatures so that is taken into account in their cooling systems.  Also, a diesel puts out a lot more heat than a gas engine of comparable displacement--I don't think you'll find a snowmobile engine that generates the heat your diesel does.

 

I think putting the radiator in front is a good idea.  You can run an electric fan mounted against the front of the radiator, and still have room for your PTO, etc.  You'll have to run some tubing from the water pump back to it, but it's doable--others on the forum have done the same, plus I think one of the Bolens Diesel GTs (not the Isekis) used a similar setup, just can't think of the model number.

 

I plan to buy one of the Honda 3 core aluminum radiators on eBay--$102 delivered with a fan is a great price.

 

Smitty


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#72 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted April 02, 2014 - 10:52 AM

I think you're going to have a lot of fun... and I think you need to check out my 400 thread...

 

If I could have found a 430/755 hood for a decent price I would have stretched my tractor to give more room. Pushed the engine forward and put that radiator behind it so that I could have use factory mechanical fan. Instead I just shoehorned the rad in with a 10" electrical fan.

 

I know Ryan doesn't want to lengthen the frame on his machine due to the negative effect on turning and maneuverability...

 

--HOWEVER--

 

What could be done is to copy what Bolens did with their HDT1000??--put an extended platform in front of the engine to hold the radiator, battery and fuel tank, and extend the hood slightly.  The tractor body is a couple inches longer, but the wheelbase, and thus the turning radius, remains the same.

 

FWIW,

 

Smitty



#73 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted April 02, 2014 - 10:53 AM

I wouldn't worry about it. Especially if your going to be running belts. But you can turn .004 into .008 in a hurry if you don't keep returning the piece to the chuck the same way. The following is easier to do than explain. Just remember to check the run-out each time you put the piece back in the chuck. If you turn the piece end for end you may have to rotate it 180 degs. in the chuck to keep it centered. I hope that made sense?  If you take your time and keep checking things you won't have any problems. It's when I get in a hurry that things seem to go down hill.  

Thanks, Chris--good advice.

 

Smitty



#74 twostep OFFLINE  

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Posted April 02, 2014 - 11:03 AM

--HOWEVER--

 

What could be done is to copy what Bolens did with their HDT1000??--put an extended platform in front of the engine to hold the radiator, battery and fuel tank, and extend the hood slightly.  The tractor body is a couple inches longer, but the wheelbase, and thus the turning radius, remains the same.

 

The 400 and the 430 both have the same wheel base (52"), the only difference is the extension on the front. Again, check out the first page of my thread and you'll see how they made room for the longer 3cyl engine (as opposed to the twin engins in the 400 and 420) with the rad up front.



#75 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted April 02, 2014 - 11:24 AM

Electric fans give a lot more options and and make it easier to do an engine conversion. I can only think of one that I've done were the engine driven fan happened to work out. 






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