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#1 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2014 - 10:43 AM

back story; I have my mother in law's CCR 2450 Toro snow blower here. I made a cardinal sin in working on it. Besides all the in law jokes, that is.  My brother in law said he'd been borrowing some one else's blower because the paddles are so shot and not being at all the "mechanical" type he has no clue where to even start looking for parts let alone how to begin replacing them (its so easy) other than going to the Toro stealership.  

So I ordered paddles, a new cutting edge, and belt online.  I then saw the lower housing was rusted completely thru and the handle attaching tabs were nearly busted out. so I ordered that, another week and a half wait. from an Ebay seller that as it turns out is only about 40 miles away....

 

Here's where I screwed up. I (usually) check the engine on a machine 1st, make sure it at least runs before I put any $$$$ into the machine itself.  This time I took my brother in law's word that "yeah it runs, just don't throw much snow because of those rubber strips being shot"...

So I ordered $90 worth of parts with tax and shipping, and put them on.  I was gonna just toss it into the Jeep at that point and take it back, I did what was asked of me.. but I figured nawww I better fire it up just to be sure before I run it back up there.... and  guess what... dead as a doornail.  No spark. OK so I disconnect the on/off switch to eliminate that as a possibility of why it was dead and same result.

great. So take it all back apart and head to Farm and Fleet with old coil in hand looking for a new one.

For some unknown reason they seem to think this Coil is worth $96 PLUS $5 "special order fee and tax. this is an OEM Briggs coil they are pricing me.

So back home and onto Ebay/Amazon etc with the part number.

The cheapest I can find the exact OEM Briggs coil is $69   Theres a guy advertising "brand new take offs" for about $40 the same guy 40 miles away that I got the lower housing from.

But... I find several aftermarket versions starting at $19 (Amazon) $23 (Ebay) 

cmon I can buy a whole new motor for less than $300.... that coil is worth over 1/3 the value of a complete engine?  I call BS.

 

The OE Briggs number is 801268.  Toro and Lawnboy show a number of 99-2911 a number that crosses over several times. and these cross overs are what I'm finding for $20-some. The OE Toro Lawn boy numbers also sell for about $65-70 on Ebay.

 

Here comes the opening of the can of worms....

My question (maybe obvious by now)  What's the difference between the aftermarket (as of yet IDK a brand name)  and the OE Briggs or Toro/Lawnboy? other than the price that sellers are wanting for each version of this coil? should I spend 3X as much and order the OE one? Is it any better?

I do know this... Engine companies don't make electrical components, they source them out.  Even years ago I remember the Briggs coils saying "Belden"  on them...

I do know that I cant bring myself to trust the cheap rebuild kits  that consist of chinamade rings pistons valves and connecting rods, going with OE on internal parts. 

but even then the OE Kohler piston and rings I got for a 12 HP Magnum last year, the piston is stamped "made in India"   did they lave off the "na"  meaning it was really "made in Indiana"?

 

On this snow blower I am spending (hopefully) someone elses money, but when ever I work on their stuff there's at least a 50-50 chance that its my own money that winds up getting spent. Ive  been stung by them before. (the "in law" thing working here)

  so there is a sense of "damage control spending" vs  not wanting to have to do the job again in a year working here too.


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#2 boyscout862 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2014 - 11:12 AM

I feel your pain. My in laws were idiots and even 5 years after the last one died, I'm still having to pay for their selfish stupidity(I hope my vent doesn't bother you). My first suggestion would be to check for a doner engine to take the coil. I also would check the coil for good connections and with and ohm meter. I'm debating with myself about the aftermarket parts for a K301 that I have apart. I am inclined to take a chance because of the big savings and the fact that the OEM manufacturers pretty much sent the work overseas anyway. Good Luck, Rick
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#3 Sawdust OFFLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2014 - 11:31 AM

It seems like a hit or miss world anymore when it comes to buying parts. I'm fifty nine years old & have never had to have someone else do repairs but I have been bitten a few times using the wrong source for parts. Aftermarket doesn't always mean bad, it's the source that supplies them. I buy a lot from Ebay & online myself. The guy you bought your previous parts from sounds good. If he's just forty miles away maybe he wouldn't care if you drove out & maybe build a relationship with for parts in the future. I recently had to buy my son a charger for his laptop that he lost & HP wants $73. I found them on Ebay from $9. to $32. figure that. The very cheap ones were coming from all over the world & would take over thirty days to arrive. I ended up buying the exact same part used from a reputable computer shop in Kansas for $15. I know all about working for family....worse clients ever.  :mad2:


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#4 HDWildBill OFFLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2014 - 11:33 AM

I've replaced quite a few coils in both B&S and Kohler engines and I don't remember paying that much.  I've got a couple of old coils I've pulled off engines that had something else wrong with it.  I'll check the part number and let you know.


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#5 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2014 - 11:35 AM

no the rant on your in laws don't bother me....

but more than that (maybe I shouldn't be talking about mine either) I'm irritated about the cost of OE parts while at the same time would rather have a "known quality" 

this on another engine I worked on a few years ago an older (80s)  3 HP briggs horizontal that was on a walk behind "bush hog" sort of mower  kind of like the bachtold but smaller.  It was missing gov linkage. I took the numbers and went across town to the small engine joint and paid like $17 for a link and spring. Parts that used to cost like 2.98    Not like gov parts are available aftermarket though

I understand them wanting to sell a whole new machine ya know EPA compliant, warranty and big markup  for them but why price any one component at such a high percentage of what the whole thing is worth to begin with?

 

On the other hand having been an auto mechanic for almost 30 years for a living (not counting helping Dad at home in the garage with a motor job on a 65 Dart, when I was no more than 5 yo myself)  I do all I can, NOT to buy anything from the stealership.

if is available anywhere else I don't buy from the dealer for car parts

back when I was a teen, I wasn't happy about having only the OEMs to buy parts from back when I started playing with mowers and tractors and wished there was a place like a car Quest of the small engine world that had anything needed from someone besides briggs Tecumseh or Kohler

Now that we are getting aftermarket stuff and "knock offs" for small engines a lot of it I am truly afraid of because more than about anything I hate re-do's.... maybe cleaning the garage comes close, to things I absolutely hate.


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#6 jpackard56 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2014 - 11:39 AM

 not wanting to have to do the job again in a year working here too.

1) I'm with you, I'm tired of paying for others obligations (inlaws and outlaws)

2) Name brand hardly means "quality" anymore as you pointed out Kohler made in India, I've had OEM GM parts made in Yugoslavia, Ford made in Mexico...Both of those vehicles replacement parts needed repaired/replaced again under warrenty. Of course labor is not included on replacement parts.(OEM or otherwise)

 

In your situation---Go the cheap route, they are going to abuse it and you'll be fixing it again next year anyway. !!


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#7 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2014 - 11:44 AM

I've replaced quite a few coils in both B&S and Kohler engines and I don't remember paying that much.  I've got a couple of old coils I've pulled off engines that had something else wrong with it.  I'll check the part number and let you know.

I don't ever remember paying that much for one either.  I can still get the OE coil for a 130000 series 5 HP horizontal for $20 some  for that, not worth worrying about aftermarket  but when OE is $70 online and $100 locally umm yeah. something wrong with that picture

I guess this same coil was used on lots of Lawn boys too.


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#8 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2014 - 11:54 AM

1) I'm with you, I'm tired of paying for others obligations (inlaws and outlaws)

2) Name brand hardly means "quality" anymore as you pointed out Kohler made in India, I've had OEM GM parts made in Yugoslavia, Ford made in Mexico...Both of those vehicles replacement parts needed repaired/replaced again under warrenty. Of course labor is not included on replacement parts.(OEM or otherwise)

 

In your situation---Go the cheap route, they are going to abuse it and you'll be fixing it again next year anyway. !!

yeah in my job as a fleet mechanic for the State of IL, I tell the boss what the car I'm working on needs, he does the calling and chasing, when the parts driver shows up I put what ever they bring onto the car.... when I started out he was into buying everything "cheap" and we had that bite us a couple times on house brand ball joints--very important components by the way-- and after a few redo's he started buying name brand front end parts like Moog.... but on other things I see he's buying more Delco and motorcraft  and it is aggravating how much of even those parts are from China.  I don't mind seeing Canada on the label at all.... Mexico bothers me a little bit but Taiwan and China really ticks me off....  when I put the clutch in my Dakota it took me 3X of redoing it due to bad throwout bearings to finally get a clutch kit that didn't say china on it and also that didn't crap out on me within 5K miles.... cmon now my truck was made in Michigan why are we basically being forced to accept parts from China??? the 1st 2 clutch kits I got fom the parts house had plastic sleeves on the throwout bearings instead of the original cast iron, and both that went bad, that was the source of trouble. after #2 I got my money back and went somewhere else and bought a different brand. so far almost 20K miles and so far so good. 

 

All that does is provide the kind of "job security" that nobody wants when things go bad and the job has to be done over


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#9 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2014 - 11:58 AM

I feel your pain. My in laws were idiots and even 5 years after the last one died, I'm still having to pay for their selfish stupidity(I hope my vent doesn't bother you). My first suggestion would be to check for a doner engine to take the coil. I also would check the coil for good connections and with and ohm meter. I'm debating with myself about the aftermarket parts for a K301 that I have apart. I am inclined to take a chance because of the big savings and the fact that the OEM manufacturers pretty much sent the work overseas anyway. Good Luck, Rick

it aint savings, if the build doesn't hold up


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#10 boyscout862 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2014 - 12:01 PM

There isn't much that we can do about the way things are. One thing we can do is what we are doing here, share questions and answers. We are all in this together! Good Luck, Rick


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#11 jpackard56 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2014 - 12:10 PM

I agree completely on the Moog suspension parts, so far no problems with them, BUT some of my TRW suspension parts (which used to be top drawer) have been outsourced.

My point was nobody is gonna die if the blower stalls, go the cheap route, it maybe the exact same part anyway.

Good luck whatever you do.


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#12 boyscout862 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2014 - 12:15 PM

 it aint savings, if the build doesn't hold up

 

 

 

I agree. I "overdesigned" bridges for years. A 25% over design only increased the cost by 5%. I designed for easy construction so the overall cost was a bargain. They are now lasting longer than they were scheduled to. I also have seen plenty of times where the cheaper part was better than or equal to the more expensive. In the late 60s I worked at a Mercury dealer. Repairs on a used Caddie required new wheel bearings. The parts guy told me that the Caddie bearings were $16 each or the same bearings but labled for Olds were $12. You just never know.

 

If oem is made in india I'd try aftermarket. I have 8 Kohlers to do, so it is a large amount of money. Good Luck, Rick 


Edited by boyscout862, February 17, 2014 - 12:15 PM.

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#13 TomLGT195 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2014 - 01:30 PM

I , like everybody, like to save a buck but, going with the cheapest doesn't always save the most. I have a great relationship with the parts guy at the Ford dealer as well as local small engine shop and get very competitive prices on my parts. Could I save another 5% probably , but I get quick service and free advice. For this situation I would try the guy 40 miles away sounds like his price is in the middle and could become a good future source for parts. Tom
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#14 HDWildBill OFFLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2014 - 01:54 PM

The majority of my parts come from the small engine shop in our closest town.  I have actually found that they are usually a dollar or two cheaper then the on-line prices and there is no shipping.  The added benefit is that I just have to call them up and if they don't have it in stock they order it for me and I just pay when I pick the item(s) up.  Most all the parts I get from them are OEM parts.  Another added benefit, as Tom said, is it is another source of advice and also what the local market is doing.


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#15 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2014 - 03:50 PM

I , like everybody, like to save a buck but, going with the cheapest doesn't always save the most. I have a great relationship with the parts guy at the Ford dealer as well as local small engine shop and get very competitive prices on my parts. Could I save another 5% probably , but I get quick service and free advice. For this situation I would try the guy 40 miles away sounds like his price is in the middle and could become a good future source for parts. Tom

if it was only 5% I wouldn't balk.... but we are talking $69 and free shipping via Ebay vs $96 + $5 to ship PLUS TAX at the local joint in this case.  that is a helluva difference.  this is OEM vs OEM, I'm not gonna include th aftermarket ones I found for purposes of this discussion right now because that may be apples vs oranges    I wont know if its apples vs apples til I get the aftermarket one from Ebay in my hand so cant say yet   adt is 1 yr warranty IDK what OE gives but I am sure its no better....

 

One thing to be said for the local guy though is if thre would be a problem I'd much rather have an over the counter exchange than to ship it back and wait for them to get around to sending me another *if* the need were to ever come up. 

but for over 30% difference on the exact same coil from the same OEM  I'll take my chances especially since the local guy would have to order it too...


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