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Hone, Bore, Toss


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#1 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted February 11, 2014 - 09:07 PM

I have a Wisconsin ABN that came with my Waterloo 40 walk behind.  When I got it, it was in a box in pieces.  It has been in the box for at least a decade according to the PO.  It looks like the oil pump rod ceased & the oil stopped flowing so the connecting rod  wore out at the crank (crank is okay).  Anyway, I'm in the process of getting it back up and running.  

 

Tonights question/concern was the condition of the cylinder.  It looked bad & I thought I would need to have it bored, but how much oversize was unknown.  I spent some time with a scotchbrite pad & then with my hone.  It looks like I am still within spec, or within a thou either side.  I still have some finish honing to do, but I am encouraged.  Thought you all might like to see the results.  I would have done more, but my hone threw the stones when I pulled it out of the cylinder.  Considering this is my first time honing a cylinder, I am happy with the results.

 

IMG_1673.JPG IMG_1674.JPG IMG_1675.JPG IMG_1676.JPG IMG_1677.JPG IMG_1678.JPG IMG_1679.JPG IMG_1680.JPG IMG_1681.JPG IMG_1682.JPG IMG_1683.JPG IMG_1684.JPG IMG_1685.JPG IMG_1686.JPG IMG_1687.JPG

 

 


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#2 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted February 11, 2014 - 09:26 PM

Looks like its cleaning up nice. What type of hone are you using?  Are you working from a manual? Your hone angle looks a little tighter than I'm used to. If this is your first engine rebuild, you may want to practice on a less valuable engine. Good Luck, Rick


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#3 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted February 11, 2014 - 09:34 PM

Yes, the angle is not what I'd like it to be.  I still have some more work to do on it. I need to slow down the drill & speed up my stroke.   Thought I'd practice on this one as may need boring in any event.  I see some scoring in some of the photos my old eyes did not see in the basement light.  

 

It is a Lisle 23500.

 

LIL-23500-2.jpg

 


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#4 superaben OFFLINE  

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Posted February 11, 2014 - 09:36 PM

I'm with Rick, practice a bit before you do the real thing so you don't kick yourself all over later.  The angle looks a bit off to me, too, but that's easy to fix if you dress it gently one more round.  Honing takes practice. 

 

Remember, honing is also a smaller version of boring. I knew of a guy who honed his engine into reboring .010 over once.  True story.  I wouldn't overdo it. 

 

Check your crank before you go too much farther and make sure there is no scoring and that it is within specs.  Down here at least, the AA-AB-ABN series is fairly common so if it isn't in decent shape I would consider saying it is a good donor engine and find another copy.  I have one I could send you.  :D

 

Ben W.


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#5 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted February 11, 2014 - 09:41 PM

I'm not sure what your planes are for this machine but if it is to just run on occasion your almost there. Get your cross hatching right and you got it. Did you check the cylinder for taper or if it is out of round? 


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#6 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted February 11, 2014 - 09:45 PM

I agree, they seem common.  I picked up a spare this weekend.  I was reading Clinton manual and they recommend a hone to do the re-bore for oversize pistons.

 

page from clinton manual.jpg

 

 

I haven't checked it for taper, out of round, etc.  I am more interested in whether it is salvageable at this point.  I think it will be.  Now that it is "clean", I can get it measured for an oversize piston, if needed.  


Edited by New.Canadian.DB.Owner, February 11, 2014 - 09:47 PM.

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#7 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted February 12, 2014 - 05:21 AM

The hone you have is a glaze breaker hone. It puts a nice finish on the cylinder walls but does not true up the cylinder. A truing cylinder hone will make the cylinder round and take out any taper when used with the correct touch. I have used a truing cylinder hone to take worn cylinders to 0.010" oversize but it takes awhile. Good Luck, Rick


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#8 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted February 12, 2014 - 06:27 AM

The hone you have is a glaze breaker hone

 

I was thinking  the same as Rick said , almost all of us call the glaze breaker a hone ,I do too ,  heck it looks the same as a " wheel brake hone " that we use. Any way you did a great  job cleaning that bore up . Did you try to clean any of the rust out before honing ?   .


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#9 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted February 12, 2014 - 08:13 AM

I was thinking  the same as Rick said , almost all of us call the glaze breaker a hone ,I do too ,  heck it looks the same as a " wheel brake hone " that we use. Any way you did a great  job cleaning that bore up . Did you try to clean any of the rust out before honing ?   .

Yes, I knocked off the loose stuff with a scotchbrite pad before I started with the hone.  

 

Thanks for all the input on getting this right.  I did not know there about a truing hone.  Maybe you guys can help with piston sizing.

 

The ABN is spec'd as a 2 1/2" cylinder and mine shows 2.500".  From my reading of the manual, to spec the cylinder / piston you 1) measure the base of the piston, and allow .0045" to .005" for piston/ cylinder clearance.  If you are more than .005" out you need to put in over sized rings &/ or piston.

 

My piston measures at 2.490", but shows no wear.  It does have a stamp on the top: 1/2 with a bar over it.   Does that mean I am okay or out?  What size piston am I ordering, standard, or over?


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#10 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted February 12, 2014 - 08:25 AM

Yes, I knocked off the loose stuff with a scotchbrite pad before I started with the hone.  

 

Thanks for all the input on getting this right.  I did not know there about a truing hone.  Maybe you guys can help with piston sizing.

 

The ABN is spec'd as a 2 1/2" cylinder and mine shows 2.500".  From my reading of the manual, to spec the cylinder / piston you 1) measure the base of the piston, and allow .0045" to .005" for piston/ cylinder clearance.  If you are more than .005" out you need to put in over sized rings &/ or piston.

 

My piston measures at 2.490", but shows no wear.  It does have a stamp on the top: 1/2 with a bar over it.   Does that mean I am okay or out?  What size piston am I ordering, standard, or over?

 

If the piston has 1/2 stamped into it that means its bored 1/2 over.

This was done at the factory with blocks that were slightly out of spec or had imperfections. As far as I know the 1/2 size was only available from the factory and no servicing dealers stocked those special parts.

Your either going to have to use your old parts or get it bored to oversize.

Replacing the piston is generally not necessary if they are in good shape and still within tolerances, your going to have to get atleast .010+ Rings and grind them down if you decide to use the original Piston.


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#11 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted February 12, 2014 - 12:51 PM

How accurate are you on the 2.500 measurement? That's 2 1/2 right on the nose, doesn't sound like it was bored oversize. You might be a little loose on the piston but I think I'd just buy standard rings and put it together. Do you have an original ring? Put it in the bore and see what kind of end gap you get.


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#12 trowel OFFLINE  

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Posted February 12, 2014 - 05:56 PM

How accurate are you on the 2.500 measurement? That's 2 1/2 right on the nose, doesn't sound like it was bored oversize. You might be a little loose on the piston but I think I'd just buy standard rings and put it together. Do you have an original ring? Put it in the bore and see what kind of end gap you get.

And while your at it, using the ring check for cylinder roundness all the way to the deck.

After honing you also might want to deburr the deck with a cylinder reamer.


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#13 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted February 12, 2014 - 06:10 PM

How accurate are you on the 2.500 measurement? That's 2 1/2 right on the nose, doesn't sound like it was bored oversize. You might be a little loose on the piston but I think I'd just buy standard rings and put it together. Do you have an original ring? Put it in the bore and see what kind of end gap you get.

I wondered about that.  With the 1/2 under a bar, I thought it might be 1/2 under size, but why would they do something like that?  

 

I try to get a shot of that later tonight. I'll also do the ring gap measurements.


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Posted February 12, 2014 - 06:28 PM

And while your at it, using the ring check for cylinder roundness all the way to the deck.

 

Checking the gap from top to bottom will check for cylinder taper more than roundness.



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Posted February 12, 2014 - 06:50 PM

Checking the gap from top to bottom will check for cylinder taper more than roundness.

 

I was not talking about the end gap, you took care of that.

Use the cylinder ring as a measuring tool to check for cylinder ovality.


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