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Sub Compact Tractors--Share Your Experience, Please!

scut sub-compact

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#106 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted February 19, 2014 - 10:55 AM

So...

 

This thread has had a lot of great responses, which I greatly appreciate.

 

We've talked quite a bit about the Japanese makes--Iseki, Hinomoto, Shibaura, Yanmar, Kubota, and they're US-branded siblings, but I haven't seen much said about the other Compact and Sub-compact tractors--the Korean-made machines like Kioti (DaeDong), LS, Tym and Branson, or the Indian-made Mahindra. 

 

Aside from Gutbrod, I'm not sure which European manufacturer's built compacts and SCUTs and if any made it into the US market, but there are many high-quality European makes as well--Fendt, Lamborghini (yep, you can actually brag to your friends that you own a Lamborghini), Porsche, Kramer, M-B, FIAT, Klaas, Deutz to name a few.

 

There also hasn't been any discussion of the Jinma, Rhino, and other Chinese tractors.

 

I don't know if Belarus made a compact sized-tractor--I doubt it, but it would be interesting if they did.

 

So, if anyone owns or has experience with these machines, let's hear from you as well--including our members from across the pond. I know there's Wolfgang (jdrasentrac) in Germany, and some others in Great Britain and Scotland, and I think a member in Denmark...

 

Smitty


Edited by Utah Smitty, February 19, 2014 - 11:03 AM.


#107 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted February 19, 2014 - 11:09 AM

What about just living with a little bit bigger machine? My 1973 Ford 2000 diesel tractor with a Ford FEL,3ph, and PTO has worked great for me for 25+ years. Parts and catagory 1 3ph attachments are plentifull and reasonably priced. I've found that if its too big for the Bolens 1250, the 2000 can handle it. As long as the battery is good, the 2000 starts easy. I get more than 2 hours plowing and bucket loading per gallon of diesel. There are alot of 30+ year old american made tractors that have another good 30 years left in them. I've looked at the SCUTs and all the problems discussed made me decide to stay away from them. Good Luck, Rick
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#108 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted February 19, 2014 - 11:19 AM

What about just living with a little bit bigger machine? My 1973 Ford 2000 diesel tractor with a Ford FEL,3ph, and PTO has worked great for me for 25+ years. Parts and catagory 1 3ph attachments are plentifull and reasonably priced. I've found that if its too big for the Bolens 1250, the 2000 can handle it. As long as the battery is good, the 2000 starts easy. I get more than 2 hours plowing and bucket loading per gallon of diesel. There are alot of 30+ year old american made tractors that have another good 30 years left in them. I've looked at the SCUTs and all the problems discussed made me decide to stay away from them. Good Luck, Rick

In my case, I have a VERY small area to operate in, plus I need to move the machine from my residential home to a garden spot a couple miles away and back, so I need a smaller tractor. 

 

That being said, I helped my mom buy an IHC 2400A three years ago (industrial version of the IHC 454 farm tractor).  It ran, but had tappet noise.  When I went to adjust the valves, I discovered two badly bent push rods.  Fortunately, the local Case/IH dealer had some in stock, even though the last 2400 was built in the early 1970s. She made good use of its loader to pickup 1,000 lb hay bales and grade her long drive.  We had to repair the radiator, and I haven't got it put back in, yet, mainly because she bought a fairly new L-series Kubota.  However, she still prefers the IHC for lifting Hay bales as the Kubota is narrower and not as stable with the bucket raised.

 

So, if you have the room, a full-sized ag tractor makes sense, and you can get them cheaper than the compacts and parts availability is still decent for many of them.

 

Smitty


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#109 trowel OFFLINE  

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Posted February 19, 2014 - 11:49 AM

That is interesting, the local Kubota has always been very helpful with what is needed for the grey market tractors but that is something i should look deeper into before going any further.

A lot of MFGs to not like to sell parts for the grey market equipments anymore, all to common now for a lot of brands.

 

You are right with the Yanmars hence me not mentioning it in the above thread and is begining to catch my eye and ear, I have two of the air cooled single cylinder ones and very, very hard to start in the winter, even with the oil hole to raise the compression but the time tested liquid cooled diesels always durable but like all the older jap engines, hard to start in the winter, even at tip top shape, i have net works of friends who deal with Kubotas and Yanmars on a daily basis, some of which repair and maintain the APUs for long haul truckers.

Experience gained from friend that own and use a JD with the two cylinder Yanmar from the late 80's has always been great, and the convertions to Kubota Z482's from others has always been very good too.

the Yanmar compacts are fairly new here on the east coast also, mabey there is a fourm member here that owns one that could comment on it's durability and longivity from personal experience.

 

In your opinion from the research you have done which of the brands would you choose, Yanmar or Kubota ?


Edited by trowel, February 19, 2014 - 02:45 PM.


#110 JD DANNELS OFFLINE  

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Posted February 19, 2014 - 01:09 PM

In my opinion and from what I have read they all seem to please those who own them. And would be fine if you have a good dealer close by who Stocks them. I think they are solid, but have heard commnts about the fit and finish being a little lacking.

 Korean-made machines like Kioti (DaeDong), LS, Tym and Branson, or the Indian-made Mahindra. 

 

There are dealers within 80 miles of me that sell eall these brands. I think the LS is the farthest away at about 80 miles.

 

Funny thing is most of these companies have sold models that have been rebadged by a well known brand at one time or another.

 

I think I heard That one of these companies build the bobcat tractors(Kioti?) and maybe the New Holland Boomer(maybe LS, but don't qoute me on that).  The Montana Tractors I'm sure is built by one of these.

 

 

The Mahindra came out of Case International helping to build a plant in India, Tractors sold in the states were Case International and anywhere else in the world as Mahindra. Thus the Mahindra while not known as well stateside is the worlds best selling tractor(they claim to sell more units than John deere in the international market).

When the contract was up Case/International allowed ther interest in the factory to default to the Mahindra Brothers.


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#111 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted February 19, 2014 - 01:52 PM

That is interesting.. that is something i should look deeper into before going any further.

A lot of MFGs to not like to sell parts for the grey market equipments anymore, all to common now for a lot of brands.

 

You are right with the Yanmars hence me not mentioning it in the above thread and is begining to catch my eye and ear, I have two of the air cooled single cylinder ones and very, very hard to start in the winter, even with the oil hole to raise the compression but the time tested liquid cooled diesels always durable but like all the older jap engines, hard to start in the winter, even at tip top shape, i have net works of friends who deal with Kubotas and Yanmars on a daily basis, some of which repair and maintain the APUs for long haul truckers.

Experience gained from friend that own and use a JD with the two cylinder Yanmar from the late 80's has always been great, and the convertions to Kubota Z482's from others has always been very good too.

the Yanmar compacts are fairly new here on the east coast also, mabey there is a fourm member here that owns one that could comment on it's durability and longivity from personal experience.

 

In your opinion from the research you have done which of the brands would you choose, Yanmar or Kubota ?

Kubota America filed and won a  lawsuit several years ago against people importing Kubota grey market machines. They weren't allowed to use Kubota's name or any of their trademarked symbols, etc. Which is probably why there aren't many of them here compared to the Yanmars, although you'll still see some GM Kubotas sold here under the name of Zen-Noh--a large Japanese ag co-op.  KA has also said it will not support grey market machines and has forbid their dealers from doing it at the risk of losing their franchise--I'd recommend you edit your post and delete your dealer's name and location to keep them out of hot water.

 

Here's a list of the Kubota Grey Market Machines from Kubota America:

 

http://www.kubota.co...MarketList.aspx

 

As to which model I'd choose---- it depends.  None of the grey market machines have HST trannys. Since I've decided I need a HST transmission, or at least a power shift or shuttle trans, that limits the grey market Yanmars to the YM1510 and YM1610--the others are too big. Also, although the GM Yanmar "F" series machines have some nice features like step through operator's platforms and sleek styling, they aren't as dependable as the regular YM series Yanmars. Parts are also not near as plentiful--almost non-existent in the 3-digit F series. And, they use a larger number of electronic controls, with little to no repair manuals in English.

 

Although I favor Yanmars overall, these facts shifts things in favor of John Deeres (although some GM Yanmars have better parts support than JD compacts), Kubotas, -or- one of the M-Fs, Yanmars, Challengers, or Ford/NewHollands as long as parts are reasonably available.  The comments on this thread of other member's has identified other machines and models that will fit the bill for me, so it opens up the field more as to what is available.

 

Smitty


Edited by Utah Smitty, February 19, 2014 - 03:11 PM.


#112 js5020 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 19, 2014 - 02:00 PM

Honestly I have no issue where something is made,,,(things are what they are)  I own 2 Korean vehicles both have over 150K and have been troublefree, however I will not pay as much as a US name brand for them.  Same with tractors, I will not pay almost as much for an off brand (not JD or Kubota) as I will for a JD or Kubota, aint gonna happen!  There has to be a Substancial cut in the price.  There is just a whole bunch of things involved and they are all important later on down the road say 20yrs, ask me I have a 30yr old Hinomoto (AC) in nice shape with 1070 hrs and if the right things start breaking its a hunk of scrap iron and my "lifetime" tractor isnt "lifetime" anymore.


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#113 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted February 19, 2014 - 02:00 PM

In my opinion and from what I have read they all seem to please those who own them. And would be fine if you have a good dealer close by who Stocks them. I think they are solid, but have heard commnts about the fit and finish being a little lacking.

 Korean-made machines like Kioti (DaeDong), LS, Tym and Branson, or the Indian-made Mahindra. 

 

There are dealers within 80 miles of me that sell eall these brands. I think the LS is the farthest away at about 80 miles.

 

Funny thing is most of these companies have sold models that have been rebadged by a well known brand at one time or another.

 

I think I heard That one of these companies build the bobcat tractors(Kioti?) and maybe the New Holland Boomer(maybe LS, but don't qoute me on that).  The Montana Tractors I'm sure is built by one of these.

 

 

The Mahindra came out of Case International helping to build a plant in India, Tractors sold in the states were Case International and anywhere else in the world as Mahindra. Thus the Mahindra while not known as well stateside is the worlds best selling tractor(they claim to sell more units than John deere in the international market).

When the contract was up Case/International allowed ther interest in the factory to default to the Mahindra Brothers.

Kioti owns Bobcat from what I understand, and the Kioti brand itself is established well-enough in North America that they seem to be a good choice.  Unfortunately, I haven't found a model that is in the low end of the compact tractor or SCUT range.

 

That's good background info, especially on the Mahindra-- I didn't realize they were building Case tractors.  I've read reviews on the Mahindras when they first started importing them, and they seemed to have a problem with inconsistent quality and some mechanical problems... I guess I'm still a little leery of them.

 

I forgot to mention the Montana, but, yes, they are also built in Korea.  The LS is a spinoff from LG--the famed Korean electronics and appliance company.

 

There was also a US company that imported Jinmas or one of the Chinese tractor brands, and rebadged them--different paint, and I think different sheet metal--I've forgotten the name, however.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Smitty



#114 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted February 19, 2014 - 02:06 PM

Honestly I have no issue where something is made,,,(things are what they are)  I own 2 Korean vehicles both have over 150K and have been troublefree, however I will not pay as much as a US name brand for them.  Same with tractors, I will not pay almost as much for an off brand (not JD or Kubota) as I will for a JD or Kubota, aint gonna happen!  There has to be a Substancial cut in the price.  There is just a whole bunch of things involved and they are all important later on down the road say 20yrs, ask me I have a 30yr old Hinomoto (AC) in nice shape with 1070 hrs and if the right things start breaking its a hunk of scrap iron and my "lifetime" tractor isnt "lifetime" anymore.

Excellent points!  I agree--

 

In my work, we bought 4 Korean-made machine tools (Doosan), including a large horizontal boring mill that cost close to 7 figures.  They have been pretty good machines overall, though not nearly as dependable as our Moriseikis.  And, their parts support lacks a lot.  We needed to get a new flexible wiring channel for our Doosan lathe.  Not only was it expensive, it had to come from Korea, PLUS, even though the Doosan tech ordered it from the parts manual, it wasn't the correct one and had to be reordered.

 

Smitty



#115 trowel OFFLINE  

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Posted February 19, 2014 - 02:59 PM

Many thanks for the info, slipped by me, will go through it later, have to work tonight.

 

Although I favor Yanmars overall, these facts shifts things in favor of John Deeres (although some GM Yanmars have better parts support than JD compacts), Kubotas, -or- one of the M-Fs, Yanmars, Challengers, or Ford/NewHollands as long as parts are reasonably available.  The comments on this thread of other member's has identified other machines and models that will fit the bill for me, so it opens up the field more as to what is available.

 

Smitty

-I'd recommend you edit your post and delete your dealer's name and location to keep them out of hot water.

 

I edited out the dealer and would advise you to do the same from my quoted post please. They have been very good to me.

You are another voice going for Yanmar, it seems the market is now heading in that direction.



#116 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted February 19, 2014 - 03:11 PM

Many thanks for the info, slipped by me, will go through it later, have to work tonight.

 

 

I edited out the dealer and would advise you to do the same from my quoted post please. They have been very good to me.

You are another voice going for Yanmar, it seems the market is now heading in that direction.

Done.

 

Smitty


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#117 JD DANNELS OFFLINE  

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Posted February 19, 2014 - 04:19 PM

I'm thinking Northern Tool imported the Jinma for a while and sold it as a Nor-Trac..

 

Checking Tractor Data Belarus did import a small tractor but have no idea how many were sold in the states. I have only seen bigger row crop models.

 

Another brand that interests me is Deutz. They had some models around 25 hp but specs aout around 3,000 lbs so I would consider them a Compact Utility?  The modular air cooled engine makes me curious,

They are built like an aircooled VW or more like an Aircraft engine so you could pull a jug and rebuild individual cylinders.  but I have only seen big Farm Tractors in my area.


Edited by JD DANNELS, February 19, 2014 - 04:22 PM.

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#118 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted February 19, 2014 - 04:36 PM

I'm thinking Northern Tool imported the Jinma for a while and sold it as a Nor-Trac..

 

Checking Tractor Data Belarus did import a small tractor but have no idea how many were sold in the states. I have only seen bigger row crop models.

 

Another brand that interests me is Deutz. They had some models around 25 hp but specs aout around 3,000 lbs so I would consider them a Compact Utility?  The modular air cooled engine makes me curious,

They are built like an aircooled VW or more like an Aircraft engine so you could pull a jug and rebuild individual cylinders.  but I have only seen big Farm Tractors in my area.

I've seen Deutz engines--the Belarus use a license-built copy IIRC, also the Kramer tractors use them.  The 25 hp models probably have a ton of torque.  Most of them have strokes longer than bore diameter.

 

I believe the jugs can be removed separately, but am not positive.

 

Smitty


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#119 js5020 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 19, 2014 - 04:39 PM

When it comes to the "grays" I feel Yanmar wins hands down as far as parts supply goes , however it seems that only goes for the 4 digit models, a popular aftermarket supplier doesnt list parts for F series or later machines.  As long as aftermarket parts makers have a big market for their wares they will keep on producing parts, parts sellers in the US will follow to make a living.  Those machines are mid 70 to mid 80s and will be supported till the bulk are worn out and parts demand dwindles and I would expect the aftermarketers will "upgrade" to the next series.  Those Yanmars were a dime a dozen 5 or 10 yrs back and prices were what I thought very favorable to the buyer, now Im not so sure, seems the retailers felt the need Or were forced by liability issues to bring them up to US standards and significantly raised the cost of the machine.  This increase brought them closer to US models and the grays are older, less ergonomic, and even the Yannys have parts that are rarer than hens teeth and models that have No parts support. 


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#120 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted February 20, 2014 - 01:00 AM

When it comes to the "grays" I feel Yanmar wins hands down as far as parts supply goes , however it seems that only goes for the 4 digit models, a popular aftermarket supplier doesnt list parts for F series or later machines.  As long as aftermarket parts makers have a big market for their wares they will keep on producing parts, parts sellers in the US will follow to make a living.  Those machines are mid 70 to mid 80s and will be supported till the bulk are worn out and parts demand dwindles and I would expect the aftermarketers will "upgrade" to the next series.  Those Yanmars were a dime a dozen 5 or 10 yrs back and prices were what I thought very favorable to the buyer, now Im not so sure, seems the retailers felt the need Or were forced by liability issues to bring them up to US standards and significantly raised the cost of the machine.  This increase brought them closer to US models and the grays are older, less ergonomic, and even the Yannys have parts that are rarer than hens teeth and models that have No parts support. 

Yeah, I've noticed a hefty price increase since last summer--some of it may be due to spring coming on and a lot of people buy this time of year, but a lot of the gray market dealers have got out of the business altogether, or are selling only certain makes as franchised dealers.

 

Smitty







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