Jump to content

Nominations for Tractor of the Month
Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
* * * * * 3 votes

Sub Compact Tractors--Share Your Experience, Please!

scut sub-compact

  • Please log in to reply
139 replies to this topic

#31 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

Utah Smitty

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5557
  • 1,643 Thanks
  • 1,746 posts
  • Location: Northern Utah

Posted February 12, 2014 - 10:48 AM

I planted the garden plot I have, and a couple others, with my Sears GT18/ 6--what a workout!!  I have bad knees, and they let me know I had really abused them with the repeated use of the clutch as I moved up and back on the furrows.

 

That was in late fall, 2012  This spring I tilled the garden with my White Yard Boss (MTD990) Hydrostatic.  What a difference! I had read you need to run the engine at full speed with a hydro--I kept the speed up, but not max, and didn't notice a problem with overheating, etc.  It sure was easier than using the clutch repeatedly.

 

I then furrowed about 2/3rds of the plot for potatoes using the same machine.  It wasn't as taxing on it as plowing would have been, but still gave me an idea of how it worked.  I also used the machine to plow some friend's gardens... again I really appreciated the convenience of the hydrostatic, albeit lever operated.

 

When I bought the JD 420, I LOVED the power steering... it had a lot of slop in it, but still turned well and was quite agile.  I used it's loader on several occasions, and found it challenging due to having to regulate speed with the hand lever, and use the other hand to operate the boom and curl on the loader---tried to steer with my knees, but no go there. 

 

The Bolens HT23, with its 500 lb capacity FEL (compared to the JD420s 300 lbs) did a lot more work, and the pedal-operated hydrostatic was so slick to operate.  However, it was hard to turn, and the steering has quite a bit of slop, so it doesn't turn as quickly, or as sharply as the 420.  I replaced the wide stock front wheels with narrow trailer wheels and it helped a lot as there was less ground contact, thereby less friction when turning.  Hanging a counter weight on the rear would undoubtedly help a lot.  In fact, I'm about 1/3 done with a 3ph so I can hang my (heavy) scraper blade on it.  I had tried using the 3ph off my 1886 but the vertical lift arms are integral with the horizontal arms and they hit the frame when raising the hitch.

 

So, putting the scraper on will ease the steering problem somewhat.  I also have one of the combined valve/cylinder type power-assist systems off a JD400 that I could install, but I'm wanting to install an orbital valve and cylinder instead, and bypass the worn sector gear and draglink altogether.

 

I plan to do this in conjunction with my repowering the HT23 with the Mitsubishi L3E engine--it will become necessary then, since, even though the Mitsi engine is one of the lightest you can find for it's power, it still weighs about 60 lbs more than the Kohler K582 twin currently installed.  Add the radiator and water, ups the weight even more.

 

Nonetheless, I appreciate the input I've been receiving--PLEASE keep it coming!!  I've learned of tractor models I never knew existed, several of which are good candidates, and I've also had to "tweak" my requirements as I've gleaned information from the experience of those here on the forum... Thank you for sharing that...

 

Regards,

 

Smitty


  • Alc and Cvans have said thanks

#32 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

Utah Smitty

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5557
  • 1,643 Thanks
  • 1,746 posts
  • Location: Northern Utah

Posted February 12, 2014 - 10:54 AM

Hydros, hydros, hydros,,,,, hmmmm,,,,,, I can tell you this, I recently picked up a WH 16 GT with a hydro and I have the AC5020 CUT gear and unless a job requires the heft of the 5020 Im using the WH.  Although the 5020 uses bigger attachments if its a tight area and there is alot of back and forth movement those bigger attachments will not offset the time needed to change gears and jockey the big machine into tight positions, as Daniel has stated the smaller WH can literally plow circles around the big bulky 5020 in small areas and light snow amounts,, out in the long wide open or deep snow, its 5020 hands down...

I have 3 reverse speeds,, oh my god is this thing going to move,,, this is going to take a while,,, and hold on I just hit the lightspeed button...

LOL!!

 

I checked out a Yanmar 169 last spring and I can appreciate what you're saying.  I was unfamiliar with the tractor so I put it in Low/Low/Low to be safe... a snail on the rear tire was able to race ahead of me and get out of the way, LOL!! But, that is nice when you do  the real grunt work.

 

My Bolens HT23 has a two range rear end coupled with the HST which is real nice.  I came across one of the SCUTs--a grey market Yanmar, I believe, which has a 3 Speed rear end and HST... now THAT should do some real lugging...

 

Smitty


  • Alc and Cvans have said thanks

#33 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

Utah Smitty

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5557
  • 1,643 Thanks
  • 1,746 posts
  • Location: Northern Utah

Posted February 12, 2014 - 11:00 AM

I'll give you my experience with my small 12hp kubota B5100 2wd:

 

Weight: dry weight is a little over 900 lbs, with loaded tires and wheel weights I'm tipping about 1600 pounds... add another 225 for me.

HP Needed:  at 1800 pounds I still break traction before I stall the little 2cyl diesel. Power is not the problem.

 

My only two points are that you will not stay under 2000 pounds and don't under estimate Diesel HP ratings! At OCH's plow day I was running in 5th gear at 3/4 throttle and keeping up with the big 25 hp JD's.

 

Regarding the manual vs hydro: I really like lack of wasted energy on manual engines but as stated you are always hunting for the right gear. 4th gear is too slow, 5th is too fast... reverse is too slow in low range and too fast in high range.

 

The owner of the B6100 I looked at said the same thing.  I was really tempted to buy it, but with it's (essentially) permanent cab, I almost have to be poured into it in order to get inside and operate it--but then I'm 60 years old--bad back and knees, and 300+ lbs of solid...ummmm..... well it used to be solid......anyway....

 

My one concern with a lower hp engine is that I work with my neighborhood Emergency Response team and I want to get a generator and pump setup I can hook to the 3ph and run from the PTO.  Howerver, the smaller sized machines are attractive as they can get into places the big ones can't but I need to be able to get into them without too much collateral damage, and I definitely want Power Steering!!

 

Smitty


  • Alc, Cvans and twostep have said thanks

#34 twostep OFFLINE  

twostep

    Rockstar

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 10198
  • 1,850 Thanks
  • 2,476 posts
  • Location: Berea, KY

Posted February 12, 2014 - 11:12 AM

I just read your review of the B6100. I hear all of your concerns and can't argue... I actually relocated my seat because the thing was obviously designed for a 5ft, 120lb japanese guy... not a 6ft, 225lb 'merican.

 

No way would I consider a geared tractor for loader work though, which is why I'm building my loader on my JD400!


  • Alc, Cvans and Utah Smitty have said thanks

#35 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

skyrydr2

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5032
  • 3,409 Thanks
  • 3,159 posts
  • Location: Gardner, Massachusetts!

Posted February 12, 2014 - 12:10 PM

Well what I am talking about is cat 1 attachments
on a baby scut( one with the engine is in backwards running a tuff torq rear) 16" bottom plow or 48" Kuhn tiller, the BX 2350 we had would not handle either one well at all yet my yanmar155d handled them like a pro and the Kubota was physically larger, ran hot and puked about an hour in . and that tiller beat the stuffing out of it and you. Hydro was terrible at holding back the tiller . now if it had say 12" bottom plow and a smaller lighter tiller it might have done better, but it had a cat 1 hitch so we used cat 1 stuff. The yanny handled it ok ? Then we got a larger 'botie a 3400 series industrial unit and it too was a hydro but much larger and properly driven. This rig was great except it had 2 pedals instead of 1. We still have it as it has a loader and hoe attachments.
It also has cruise control and 4 different ranges
The baby scuts are all the same just different engines and colors. So when looking those would be a concern for me. But if you need just a 4wd gt they would be awsome.
  • Cvans and Utah Smitty have said thanks

#36 js5020 ONLINE  

js5020

    Member

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 7086
  • 541 Thanks
  • 677 posts
  • Location: PA

Posted February 12, 2014 - 12:43 PM

LOL!!

 

I checked out a Yanmar 169 last spring and I can appreciate what you're saying.  I was unfamiliar with the tractor so I put it in Low/Low/Low to be safe... a snail on the rear tire was able to race ahead of me and get out of the way, LOL!! But, that is nice when you do  the real grunt work.

 

My Bolens HT23 has a two range rear end coupled with the HST which is real nice.  I came across one of the SCUTs--a grey market Yanmar, I believe, which has a 3 Speed rear end and HST... now THAT should do some real lugging...

 

Smitty

A Yanmar gray with HST?  Never saw one of those, oh wait I think the GT14 garden tractor has hst, now a Yanmar subcut/cut gray with a powershift trans, Ive seen those.


  • Cvans said thank you

#37 js5020 ONLINE  

js5020

    Member

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 7086
  • 541 Thanks
  • 677 posts
  • Location: PA

Posted February 12, 2014 - 12:50 PM

The owner of the B6100 I looked at said the same thing.  I was really tempted to buy it, but with it's (essentially) permanent cab, I almost have to be poured into it in order to get inside and operate it--but then I'm 60 years old--bad back and knees, and 300+ lbs of solid...ummmm..... well it used to be solid......anyway....

 

My one concern with a lower hp engine is that I work with my neighborhood Emergency Response team and I want to get a generator and pump setup I can hook to the 3ph and run from the PTO.  Howerver, the smaller sized machines are attractive as they can get into places the big ones can't but I need to be able to get into them without too much collateral damage, and I definitely want Power Steering!!

 

Smitty

Dont know what size genny you have in mind but a 20hp machine is gonna be close to 2000lb without weight or attachments.  My 5020 with no weights, no loaded tires, no operator is over 2200 lbs.  With the blade on the front and box blade on the rear and me on it were probably 3000/3500 lbs+. and I still havent added any ballast, its easy with a 20-30hp CUT to get into the 4000lb weight area.


  • Cvans said thank you

#38 js5020 ONLINE  

js5020

    Member

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 7086
  • 541 Thanks
  • 677 posts
  • Location: PA

Posted February 12, 2014 - 12:56 PM

Well what I am talking about is cat 1 attachments
on a baby scut( one with the engine is in backwards running a tuff torq rear) 16" bottom plow or 48" Kuhn tiller, the BX 2350 we had would not handle either one well at all yet my yanmar155d handled them like a pro and the Kubota was physically larger, ran hot and puked about an hour in . and that tiller beat the stuffing out of it and you. Hydro was terrible at holding back the tiller . now if it had say 12" bottom plow and a smaller lighter tiller it might have done better, but it had a cat 1 hitch so we used cat 1 stuff. The yanny handled it ok ? Then we got a larger 'botie a 3400 series industrial unit and it too was a hydro but much larger and properly driven. This rig was great except it had 2 pedals instead of 1. We still have it as it has a loader and hoe attachments.
It also has cruise control and 4 different ranges
The baby scuts are all the same just different engines and colors. So when looking those would be a concern for me. But if you need just a 4wd gt they would be awsome.

CUTs and small farm machines use Cat 1, These newer SUBCUTs and some GT++ use Limited Cat 1.  Limited it seems by the height they can lift an attachment, you need some attachments meant for the Limited Cat 1, some Cat 1s will work ok though.

 

These new subcuts are likely to "de evolve" just like the GTs did in the transmission/transaxle area,,, put in cheaper to lower the price.  Most folk that buy those dont need the subcut in the first place and few folks garden.


  • JD DANNELS, Cvans and Utah Smitty have said thanks

#39 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

Utah Smitty

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5557
  • 1,643 Thanks
  • 1,746 posts
  • Location: Northern Utah

Posted February 12, 2014 - 02:21 PM

Dont know what size genny you have in mind but a 20hp machine is gonna be close to 2000lb without weight or attachments.  My 5020 with no weights, no loaded tires, no operator is over 2200 lbs.  With the blade on the front and box blade on the rear and me on it were probably 3000/3500 lbs+. and I still havent added any ballast, its easy with a 20-30hp CUT to get into the 4000lb weight area.

I'm thinking of a belt or PTO driven Genset in the 6,000+ watt area.  For a pump... don't know-- basically I want to make sure I have enough engine to pump out basements, or provide standby power for emergency crews, communications (I'm also a Ham Radio operator) etc.

 

Smitty


  • Alc said thank you

#40 js5020 ONLINE  

js5020

    Member

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 7086
  • 541 Thanks
  • 677 posts
  • Location: PA

Posted February 12, 2014 - 02:36 PM

I'm thinking of a belt or PTO driven Genset in the 6,000+ watt area.  For a pump... don't know-- basically I want to make sure I have enough engine to pump out basements, or provide standby power for emergency crews, communications (I'm also a Ham Radio operator) etc.

 

Smitty

Well thats not overly large,, most say 2hp/1000watts, so your at 12hp for a genny by those numbers,, I dont think you will run out of engine with a pump but Im not into those.  You could likely get by with one of the smaller lighter machines mine is 26hp at the engine and 21hp at the pto, a bit big for your purposes,,,,,and mine most of the time now that the bull work is done around the house.


  • Alc, Cvans and Utah Smitty have said thanks

#41 Cvans ONLINE  

Cvans

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 5412
  • 4,483 Thanks
  • 5,013 posts
  • Location: Eastern SD.

Posted February 12, 2014 - 10:00 PM

You guys are doing a great job of expressing your views. I think this is one of the best subjects to come along in a long time. 

I have both manual and hydro transmissions. For the most part (loader, mowing, and foolishness) I like the hydro. Make that a foot operated hydro. For doing regular field work I still like a stick. Set the throttle and depth of the implement and set back and enjoy the ride. As soon as I leave the field I'm missing the hydro again. I guess I feel that they both have their place. Really can't imagine having to get along with just one.


Edited by Cvans, February 12, 2014 - 10:01 PM.

  • HowardsMF155 and Utah Smitty have said thanks

#42 js5020 ONLINE  

js5020

    Member

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 7086
  • 541 Thanks
  • 677 posts
  • Location: PA

Posted February 12, 2014 - 10:24 PM

You guys are doing a great job of expressing your views. I think this is one of the best subjects to come along in a long time. 
I have both manual and hydro transmissions. For the most part (loader, mowing, and foolishness) I like the hydro. Make that a foot operated hydro. For doing regular field work I still like a stick. Set the throttle and depth of the implement and set back and enjoy the ride. As soon as I leave the field I'm missing the hydro again. I guess I feel that they both have their place. Really can't imagine having to get along with just one.


I have to agree with your thoughts, I have 2 hydros a WH stick and a twin pedal JD, At first I disliked the stick but I have gotten use to it. I like the hydro for utility type work and mowing. Gear for long pulls.
  • Cvans said thank you

#43 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

Utah Smitty

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5557
  • 1,643 Thanks
  • 1,746 posts
  • Location: Northern Utah

Posted February 12, 2014 - 11:43 PM

You guys are doing a great job of expressing your views. I think this is one of the best subjects to come along in a long time. 
I have both manual and hydro transmissions. For the most part (loader, mowing, and foolishness) I like the hydro. Make that a foot operated hydro. For doing regular field work I still like a stick. Set the throttle and depth of the implement and set back and enjoy the ride. As soon as I leave the field I'm missing the hydro again. I guess I feel that they both have their place. Really can't imagine having to get along with just one.

Again...great points. I've lookec real hard at tractors with Power Shift, like thes Yanmar xx10 series--primarily the 1510. I inherently was put off by having to run an engine at WOT for the HSTs...it has to drastically increase fuel consumption, esp. on flathead, air-cooled gas burners.

I still have a CC102, and my GT18, so there's a couple MTs in my stable. for what I want to do overall. I think I'm going to get something with an HST. I have to find my notes on the CUT with HST and 3speed ranges... I realize now it wasn't a grey market machine...I've just been reading about so many machines that they're all swimming in my head right now....

There's a B2100 'bota for sale near here... I'm committed tomorrow after work, but I want to go look at it Friday. It's a little larger than my oroiginal specs, but does have PS and an HST--no loader, so I'll have to consider that when deciding whethervto buy it.

Smitty
  • Cvans said thank you

#44 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

Utah Smitty

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5557
  • 1,643 Thanks
  • 1,746 posts
  • Location: Northern Utah

Posted February 13, 2014 - 12:25 AM

I found it!!!!

 

The Kubota B3200 has a HST AND 3 speed ranges... it's probably a little too wide as I need to fit through a 48 inch gate... but a neat tractor nonetheless.

 

https://www.kubota.c...3200/B3200.aspx

 

Smitty


  • Alc said thank you

#45 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

skyrydr2

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5032
  • 3,409 Thanks
  • 3,159 posts
  • Location: Gardner, Massachusetts!

Posted February 13, 2014 - 04:10 AM

Now your talking!! That's a good sized unit and that size machine has tons of options and brands to choose from! That is the size of my next tractor. But I want it in a CNH flavor ;-)





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: scut, sub-compact

Top