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95 Camery Brake Issues


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#1 larrybl OFFLINE  

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Posted January 25, 2014 - 07:47 PM

I am having a fit with something that should be easy. The brakes on my 1995 Camery. I originally started noticing pedal fade, like sitting on a slight incline and the car would start rolling back until I added more pedal. Then I noticed the pedal actually going down when being pressed. I limped along like this till I went to work one day and noticed the front pass side capeler was dragging. I took it to a shop and had new front brake lines installed ($170.00) for both (I heard that the lines can cause this). As I came home the dragging got worse and I had to stop several times to let the tire cool. Last weekend I replaced both front capelers and the master cylinder. I had to return the pass side capeler as it didn’t have any threads where the hose connects. I drove the car last week and had to constantly add fluid. I found the leak today (see pictures), it was inside the master cylinder. Back to Pep Boys for an exchange, well they didn’t have one in stock, so I got a refund and went to O Riley’s and picked up another re-manufactured master cylinder. This is all a prelude to my current Issue. I bench bled the new master cylinder and installed it. I started the bleed process with the pass side rear, fluid came out fine, I moved to the pass front, (nothing) no air or fluid, moved to the driver front, it bled fine, then driver rear, (nada). I disconnected the lines and bled the master cylinder again (didn’t see any bubbles in the clear tubes. Re-installed the lines (same results) L/F & R/R bled fine, R/F & L/R Nothing comes out . I tried to place a clear tube on the driver front bleeder and stuck it in a container with clean brake fluid. Got a couple bubbles and could see the fluid moving slightly, but not much. So I am thinking I got another bum remanufactured master cylinder. O Riley’ has a new one in stock $45.00 more. Should I try for a 3rd time? Is there anything else I can try? PS the first replaced master cylinder all 4 wheels bled fine.

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#2 HDWildBill ONLINE  

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Posted January 25, 2014 - 08:21 PM

Do you have someone applying pressure with the brake pedel as you try to bleed?


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#3 larrybl OFFLINE  

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Posted January 25, 2014 - 08:28 PM

Do you have someone applying pressure with the brake pedel as you try to bleed?

Yes, my Son was helping.... He has to work tomorrow so If I exchange the master Cylender in the morning he will be back by 3PM to help again. All 4 wheels are removed, and I can't shut my shop door..... dummy me, parked too close.

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#4 Jack OFFLINE  

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Posted January 25, 2014 - 08:31 PM

Have you tried bleeding the lines at the master? Your brake system is split on opposite corners like that. That is normal. But you have half of your master not producing pressure. If both lines do not put out a good flow at high pressure when bled at the master you have a bad master cyl. Give that a shot and let us know the result.
Also there is a possibility of a stuck proportioning valve but lets get past this first check before we get into that.
Jack..

Edited by Jack, January 25, 2014 - 08:37 PM.

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#5 WNYTractorTinkerer ONLINE  

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Posted January 25, 2014 - 08:32 PM

You're car will have a Safety shut-off valve usually in the M/C area..  The short lines from the M/C will travel through this valve and if you suddenly lose pressure on one side, a piston will move and shut the leaking side off.  (You'll at least have brakes on 2 wheel which is much better than none!)  If this valve is closed you should get a Brake light on the dash..  The way to get it back open is to bleed the side that works and get the air out of it.  

 

Have your helper put pressure on the pedal and open the bleeder which will move the valve back.  Try to bleed the previously closed side.  (check the dash light-  it should now be off)  Repeat if this is unsuccessful.  Once you get the whole system bled you are back in business!!


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#6 WNYTractorTinkerer ONLINE  

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Posted January 25, 2014 - 08:33 PM

BTW there will be a wire hooked to the valve whether it is on the firewall or part of the M/C..


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#7 larrybl OFFLINE  

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Posted January 25, 2014 - 08:46 PM

Have you tried bleeding the lines at the master? Your brake system is split on opposite corners like that. That is normal. But you have half of your master not producing pressure. If both lines do not put out a good flow at high pressure when bled at the master you have a bad master cyl. Give that a shot and let us know the result.
Also there is a possibility of a stuck proportioning valve but lets get past this fist check before we get into that.
Jack..

 

Yes, I opened each line as pressure was applied to the pedal, fluid came out but didn't seem to help.

You're car will have a Safety shut-off valve usually in the M/C area..  The short lines from the M/C will travel through this valve and if you suddenly lose pressure on one side, a piston will move and shut the leaking side off.  (You'll at least have brakes on 2 wheel which is much better than none!)  If this valve is closed you should get a Brake light on the dash..  The way to get it back open is to bleed the side that works and get the air out of it.  

 

Have your helper put pressure on the pedal and open the bleeder which will move the valve back.  Try to bleed the previously closed side.  (check the dash light-  it should now be off)  Repeat if this is unsuccessful.  Once you get the whole system bled you are back in business!!

 

I re bled the good side several times. the pedal would only go 1/2 way down. I even opened up the bleeder on the good side so to have full pedal travel when trying the other side. nada. So I re bled the good side with no issue.

 

 

BTW there will be a wire hooked to the valve whether it is on the firewall or part of the M/C..

Nope, Non-ABS, only wires are on the reservoir.  It has a (Y) connector that connects to the middle lower port, and the top port has a single line connected.

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#8 larrybl OFFLINE  

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Posted January 25, 2014 - 09:08 PM

Like I said, should have been an easy fix. The first master bled and worked fine except it leaked internally. This one (the O Rylie's)  seems to have a defective chamber. I am positive I am installing and bleeding correctly. I'll take it in tomorrow and exchange it for a NEW (not remanufactured) one.  


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#9 Jack OFFLINE  

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Posted January 25, 2014 - 09:19 PM

I have fought this problem before.   I will tell you one last thing to try before you replace the master.   Open all the bleeders and stomp down the pedal about as hard as you can then close them and see if the dead side will start to bleed.  It might work.. Good luck..


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#10 larrybl OFFLINE  

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Posted January 25, 2014 - 09:28 PM

I will try this in the morning before I remove the unit. I just went out and started the car, all 4 wheels are off, and no matter how hard I pump and hold the pedal (very aggressive pumping) the passenger rotor continues to turn. It's like nothing is being applied to the capelar. I would even expect with some air in the lines it should stop the rotor.  


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#11 JohnWR OFFLINE  

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Posted January 25, 2014 - 10:27 PM

I have fought this problem before.   I will tell you one last thing to try before you replace the master.   Open all the bleeders and stomp down the pedal about as hard as you can then close them and see if the dead side will start to bleed.  It might work.. Good luck..

 

I would try this i am a Toyota tech and sometimes no matter how hard you try to bleed the normal way you just can't. As also stated i would try bleeding right at the master. Your camry has no special features if the master fails you just loose brakes so you can eliminate all that stuff.  The brake bleeder i have from mighty vac applies pressure at the reservoir and i find it eliminates this issue since it forces all the air to the bleeders.


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#12 WNYTractorTinkerer ONLINE  

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Posted January 25, 2014 - 10:29 PM

Are you bleeding with the engine off?  If not, try doing what Jack said..


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#13 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted January 25, 2014 - 10:43 PM

One thing that I've run into on these aftermarket master cylinders is chunks in the port wher the fluid feeds into the cylinder. Not sure how much you can see in the res on the Toyota. Did the cylinder come with the res or did you have to change it over?

 

I had a nightmare one time with a Toyota master cylinder. Ended up having to go to Toyota and buy a factory one to get one that would work right.


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#14 larrybl OFFLINE  

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Posted January 25, 2014 - 11:01 PM

I have tried bleeding at the MC, and with engine off and ON. I think I'll try a third (original) at the extra cost. I need to get this fixed.


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#15 EricFromPa ONLINE  

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Posted January 25, 2014 - 11:15 PM

Sounds like you have a kinked or crushed shut brake line.The black rubber coated line that connects to the caliper.Try taking it off and try to blow through it.I just went thought the same thing on my mothers car.

 

I replaced both front calipers,master cylinder and both front rotors and it would not bleed on the passenger side front.Took me a while to figure that one out until I checked the soft lines.Couldn't see a kink or bulge or anything out of the ordinary on the soft line.Tried to blow through it and Immediately found the problem.

 

 

Hope it's something as simple as this for you.


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