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How To Rig The Front Pto On A Diesel Conversion?


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#1 Tennblue59 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 09, 2014 - 09:17 PM

Hi guys! Haven't been around here for a while - we've been travelling and spending time with the kids, but "the call" finally got to me and I am starting a new project....

 

I picked up a Deere 316 (onan) a while back (minus the engine). Was originally going to put a Kohler command 18hp in it - a fairly easy conversion. But then I picked up a good running Kubota 16hp 3 cyinder (actually a golf course mower, so I plan to adapt the power steering as well and the gauges/controls) for a song and am looking at putting that in there.

 

Quick measurements, the engine/radiator looks like it will fit with some fab work - not too worried about that.... My question is how to get a workable front electric pto for the mid-mount mower. Like many other designs, the Deere takes power off the front of the onan engine via an electric clutch, down the front of the tractor (by belt), across pulleys (and a tensioner) to run horizontally under the tractor and back to the mower deck pulley. I don't really see an easy way to mount the electric clutch on the diesel engine...

 

Those of you who did a similar conversion, what did you do?

 

I thought about using a jackshaft, driven by a belt off the crankshaft. Then mount the electric clutch on the jackshaft and duplicate the original system off that. Also considered using a similarly belt fed jackshaft/clutch to power a driveshaft and switch over to a 420 style mower setup - shaft driven instead of belt driven, but that is $$$.

 

A rear electric pto (engine speed) is really easy on the 316/318/320 design. So I guess I could convert to a 3 point based rear finish mower (shaft driven off the rear pto) and do away with the mid-mount setup all together. Would really like to keep the mid mount if possible....

 

At this point, really just trying to figure out how much work it will be to put the diesel in there as opposed to the kohler conversion...


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#2 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

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Posted January 09, 2014 - 09:20 PM

Was there any clutch on the engine originally?



#3 Chopperhed OFFLINE  

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Posted January 09, 2014 - 09:52 PM

Have you verified the engine rotation compared to the original?

You'll have to run the original tractor driveline in the same rotation.

I don't know anything about the Kubota diesel setup.

I'm just stating this because I had to run the driveline of my LGT 165 off of the flywheel side of the engine. This left the output shaft available as a pto source. I repowered with a Honda clone.

never mind just re read

Edited by Chopperhed, January 09, 2014 - 09:55 PM.


#4 Tennblue59 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 09, 2014 - 09:53 PM

The original engine (onan 220) uses an electric clutch mounted on the front of the engine. It didn't have an engine in it when I got it, so I didn't get the clutch either - but it uses the standard engine mount style electric clutch. The clutch mounts over the end of the crankshaft, and bolts to the side of the engine block. 

 

The Kubota has a flywheel/pressure plate (no shaft) on the back, and pulleys (no shaft exposed) on the front. So no shaft to mount the clutch on, and no easy way to bolt the clutch body to the block on either end even if I do add a shaft... The Kubota didn't have a clutch on it - it fed a monster hydraulic system and all the attachments were hydraulic driven.

 

That was why I was looking at belt feeding a jack shaft - I can make that "look like" the front of the block with the crankshaft coming out of it. Just a matter of room to fit it in..


Edited by Tennblue59, January 09, 2014 - 10:06 PM.


#5 Tennblue59 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 09, 2014 - 10:03 PM

Chopperhed - yeah - direction of rotation needed determines whether the engine goes in frontwards or backwards. I can make an adapter for the driveshaft (that goes back to the hydro at the rear wheels) off of either end - either bolted to the rear pressure plate, or cobbed onto the front crank fed pulley cone. IF the engine goes in backwards, the cooling fan runs off a jackshaft up to the front mounted radiator (or use an electric fan on the front mounted radiator). I've actually seen the jackshaft mounted radiator fan setup used in equipment before....



#6 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted January 09, 2014 - 10:54 PM

I've got a new computer and the photos aren't downloaded on here yet so bear with me please.

On the installs that I have done the engine is facing backwards. Flywheel behind the grille. It takes some machining for things to work out. I machined an adapter that bolted to the center of the flywheel with a keyed stub shaft sticking out of it for the double belt pto pulley. The engine then needs to be mounted so the engines PTO pulley is over the PTO shaft pulley. I was unable to use the electric clutch because of the flywheel so fabricated a idler to act as a clutch. This is activated via a length of cable and one pulley which attaches to a lever located on the drive shaft tunnel near my left foot. Works smoothly and has been not problem. It is set up so I can lock it in the off position with one hand. 

I hope you where able to follow this. The main thing is that this needs to be one of the first things to get laid out before positioning the engine.

Good luck.


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#7 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2014 - 04:35 AM

As Chris stated!! If you plan to use the electric clutch you need to get that mounted so you can align it properly. On my Ford the radiator is right in front of the dash and runs the factory fan. Works pretty good but I do need to keep the screen clean in front of it at all times when mowing.
These are all old pics of my conversation but it will give you an idea as to what's involved...
Try this link to see what the new pto mount looks like..
http://gardentractor...ow-ive-done-it/

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Edited by skyrydr2, January 10, 2014 - 05:01 AM.

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#8 Tennblue59 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2014 - 11:21 AM

Thanks guys! I hadn't looked at direction yet, but thought I remembered that the engine would go in backwards - actually makes things easier!

 

I just got engine and tractor in the same place, so can start looking for fitment beyond rough measurement. On the Deere, I can adjust the location of the tensioner/vertical to horizontal pulleys without much trouble (based on how the assembly mounts - easily lengthened) - looks like I can go forward an inch or 2 easily (probably more...). Then would only need to find a longer belt to match.

 

Chris - Good idea! hadn't thought about just an adjustable tensioner instead of a clutch. Assuming the belt drags on the pulley some even when slack? Any problem with wearing a spot/burn in the belt from rubbing on the pulley if left slack for a while? I know my 110 uses the same type of system with the transmission drive, but it spends very little time unengaged...  

 

Keith - when you were doing your build, did you give any thought to trying to get the radiator in the front? Either jackshaft or electric fan? Not sure if there is room up there (width - I think I have the length...) on the Deere without going to a narrower one, but am thinking it would make the install cleaner... 

 

Thanks for the help everyone! I usually try all sorts of stuff in my head before actually starting to do layout/build. That's kind of the stage I am at right now..... I do appreciate everyones suggestions and feedback. Will upload some pictures of what I am working with later if the weather allows..



#9 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2014 - 11:41 AM

The D600 I used is not that powerful and adding any more to it would just leave less for me. So I kept it as straight forward as possible.
No need for wacky hosery for coolant too.

#10 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2014 - 12:52 PM

I haven't had any problems with the belt dragging on any of the tractors. The blades stop quickly on the one using the deck and the other two (snow blower and loader pump) release cleanly also. They all run 2 belts to the PTO.  I'll see if I can locate some photos later today.



#11 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2014 - 06:51 PM

Going to try for some photos but so far I am not a fan of windows 8.

In the photo the engine is running at about 1/4 throttle and the belts aren't moving. They don't seem to even want to creep. You can see the idler pulley runs against the back side of the belts. 

IMG_0520.JPG


Edited by Cvans, January 10, 2014 - 06:53 PM.

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