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Bringing A Cub 1650 Back To Life


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#61 dthomp17 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 30, 2014 - 11:29 AM

I would estimate that the exhaust valve had about 1/64" to 1/32" inch side to side movement. You could see and feel the valve move from side to side. I believe the tolerances are pretty tight between the valve and valve guide and you shouldn't feel any movement. There also was a fair amount of carbon buildup on the head and the top of the piston. The sparkplug was black and covered with soot. I know part of that could be carburetor adjustment and not oil burning. I haven't run the engine long enough to say that it's burning a excessive amounts of oil. It does smoke a good bit for 10 -20 seconds on initial startup and then runs with little or no smoke. As for the oil dipstick, I have to continue to jiggle it up and down untill it will finally hit an area where it will go in fully.

#62 dthomp17 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 14, 2014 - 09:06 PM

I've found a Kohler ch20 on Craigslist that I would consider buying as a back-up tractor motor. The seller says all the motor needs is a new governor gear. I asked if I would be able to hear the motor run and he stated that it would be best not to start it since all the oil had been drained. Wouldn't the engine run OK without the governor gear? You just need to be careful not to over rev it. He's asking $300 for it and that's probably a fair price if it only needs a new governor gear. When I look at the pictures, in the Criagslist link below, I have some doubts. I'm afraid there might be some internal damage caused by the governor gear coming apart that you couldn't know without tearing the motor down. Is anyone familiar with this engine and what a fair price would be if you had to do a complete rebuild?


http://atlanta.craig...4333517288.html

Edited by dthomp17, February 15, 2014 - 10:40 AM.


#63 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted February 15, 2014 - 07:55 AM

Wonder how he got those pieces out of it? Bound to be more in there.



#64 dthomp17 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 15, 2014 - 10:42 AM

Wonder how he got those pieces out of it? Bound to be more in there.



I had the same question. Haven't talked with him personally, we've only texted back and forth. He's about 50 miles from me so I wanted to find out more about the motor before going to look at it.

#65 dthomp17 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 15, 2014 - 11:39 AM

I talked with the kohler ch20 seller today and he said that there was nothing wrong with the governor gear in the motor. It was swapped with another motor that was newer but had a damaged governor gear. The damaged gear shown in the picture came from the newer motor. He's also never heard the motor run. He was given the motor for some work he did and the previous owner told him that it ran. Is there a good way to check out the motor without hearing it run? I'm afraid this might be too complicated to pursue any further.

#66 dthomp17 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 02, 2014 - 05:21 PM

Finally got the pulley off of the mower deck center spindle and found out that the spindle shaft keyway was badly damaged.  Thought about welding it and then re-grinding the keyway, but I'm afraid I would damage the bearings if I don't completely disassemble the spindle first.  Also, the spindle has grease in it to grease the bearings which would be another welding problem.  Guess I have three options.

 

1. Look for another used replacement spindle

2. Completely disassemble the spindle,fill in a portion of the keyway with a weld bead and re-grind the keyway.

3. Try and clean up the existing keyway with a mini grinder and custom make a new key to fit it.

 

The easiest option would be number 1 and the cheapest would be options 2 and 3.  The spindles are interchangeable so I could swap the center spindle with one of the outer spindles and that would put less stress on the damaged keyway.  Any thoughts or suggestions?



#67 dthomp17 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 04, 2014 - 06:23 PM

Today I cleaned up the spindle shaft keyway with a dremel tool and a 3/4" grinding disk. Added a 1/16" shim to a new 1/4" thick woodruff key and it now fits tight in the spindle shaft keyway with no play. I'll move the damaged spindle to the outside on the mower deck and put one of the outside spindles in the center to drive all the blades. I believe it will hold up. Have to wait and see.

#68 IHCubGuy ONLINE  

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Posted March 04, 2014 - 08:44 PM

Just catching up on your thread here.  On the dipstick issue I have a dumb question.  Is it hitting something hard or is it possibly the dipstick is going down against the rubber seal plug on the dipstick itself?  I have had those plugs that fit very tight into the tube the dipstick goes in and they stop short of the cap going in all the way just like you are saying.  Some twisting them back and forth and they go down in and seal.  Just a dumb thought I had about it.

 

Also I don't know if you gave up the idea on the CH20, but that would be a tight squeeze to fit into a quietline even with the side shields removed.  Would love to see some pics of it so far.



#69 dthomp17 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 04, 2014 - 09:11 PM

Just catching up on your thread here.  On the dipstick issue I have a dumb question.  Is it hitting something hard or is it possibly the dipstick is going down against the rubber seal plug on the dipstick itself?  I have had those plugs that fit very tight into the tube the dipstick goes in and they stop short of the cap going in all the way just like you are saying.  Some twisting them back and forth and they go down in and seal.  Just a dumb thought I had about it.
 
Also I don't know if you gave up the idea on the CH20, but that would be a tight squeeze to fit into a quietline even with the side shields removed.  Would love to see some pics of it so far.



The dipstick feels like it's hitting something hard but like you say, if you twist it back and forth and twitch it up and down it will finally go completely down in the tube and seal. As for the Kohler CH20, I gave up on it. It would probably have been worth the price but I had too many unanswered questions about it and was afraid to take the risk. My k341 seems to be running better now that I've adjusted the point gap. Also the engine vibration I believe is a lot better. Haven't been able to spend as much time on it as I would like lately. Too many other projects going.
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#70 OldAllis52 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 08, 2014 - 12:12 PM

I'm sure glad you bought that 1650 because I had watched it for months. I was afraid someone would buy it and scrap it. There is someone on the Knoxville TN C-List parting out a 1650 that was a really nice tractor when he started. Last time I saw the post he still had the tins,deck,frame and some other pieces to sell.


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#71 dthomp17 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 08, 2014 - 01:30 PM

I'm sure glad you bought that 1650 because I had watched it for months. I was afraid someone would buy it and scrap it. There is someone on the Knoxville TN C-List parting out a 1650 that was a really nice tractor when he started. Last time I saw the post he still had the tins,deck,frame and some other pieces to sell.


I found the ad you were talking about and that was a great looking tractor. Why would anybody in their right mind part out something in that good a shape? I suppose he thinks he can make some money that way. He still has parts to sell but didn't mention anything about the mowing deck so I assume it's gone. As good a shape as the deck looked in the picture, he would probably want $400 - $500 for it.

#72 OldAllis52 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 09, 2014 - 06:09 PM

He had the deck and carrier priced at $200 earlier.You bought yours over in the Athens Ga direction didn't you? I watched it for two months but talked myself out of it due to space and time.



#73 dthomp17 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 09, 2014 - 08:31 PM

He had the deck and carrier priced at $200 earlier.You bought yours over in the Athens Ga direction didn't you? I watched it for two months but talked myself out of it due to space and time.


No I bought mine up near Waleska GA which is about 50-60 miles north-east of Atlanta. The seller also had two old Ford garden tractors that I looked at but they were in really bad shape and a lot more work and expense than I wanted to tackle. I know a little about Sears and Cubs but absolutely nothing about Fords.

#74 dthomp17 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 04, 2014 - 06:55 PM

Sorry I haven't been on here for awhile.   When I'm not working on garden tractors I'm usually doing some type of woodworking and that's what I've been doing for the last 4 - 5 months.  Anyway, I've been promising my wife I would re-model the kitchen and finally broke down to do it.  As usual, it turned out to be a much bigger project than I thought it would.  I had to relocate a gas line for the stove, move an HVAC vent, and do a fair amount of electrical wiring such as moving some existing outlets, adding new outlets, and installing under cabinet lighting.  In addition, I did all the cabinet work construction such as building some new cabinets and putting new fronts on some of the existing cabinets.  Over all I think it turned out pretty good.  See the attached "in-process" and "after" pictures.

 

IMG_20140501_115146.jpg   IMG_20140704_112332.jpg

 

While I was working on the kitchen, I continued to monitor craigslist and ebay for parts I needed to restore the cub 1650.  I succeeded  in finding a cub 1450 parts tractor for $125 that was in decent shape.  The engine had been removed and partially disassembled but the owner said he was pretty sure it was all there.  It was all there except for the air filter housing.  The tractor also had a 44" mowing deck with the pulleys I needed for the 1650 deck.  Things were looking up.

 

DSCF0003.JPG   DSCF0004.JPG

 

DSCF0005.JPG

 

The 1450 parts tractor motor (kohler k321) had the head removed, all the engine sheet metal removed, and the oil fill tube removed when I got it.  It had been sitting outside for some time.  Even though it was covered, I was pretty sure the engine would be in bad shape with the head off and an open hole where the oil fill tube went.  I assumed the motor would at least require a major overhaul.  However, when I checked it out, the cylinder looked very good with no detectable ring grove and no evidence of scoring.  The only thing I could find wrong was a sticking exhaust valve and the starter stuck in the "engaged" position.  Took the exhaust valve out, cleaned the valve stem and the valve guide and got the valve working.  Took the starter off and cleaned an lubricated the shaft.  Cleaned and gapped the points, did a quick cleaning of the carburetor, and put it all back together.  Put some gas in it and it fired right up with no smoke and running pretty good.  My problem now is, I'm thinking this is not a parts tractor, it's a restorable tractor.  What I plan to do initially is use the best parts from both tractors to get something in usable shape, and then decide what to do with what's left.



#75 dthomp17 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 11, 2014 - 08:25 PM

Well, I put the kohler k321 from the "parts" tractor in the 1650 and I'll probably break down the K341 from the 1650 to see what it needs to quit smoking on startup.  From what I've read, the problem may be the worn exhaust valve guide since it has a fairly significant amount of play.  I believe both the exhaust valve and guide will have to be replaced but won't know for sure till I take it apart.  Even though the intake valve seems to be OK, I'll probably replace both.  Has anybody replaced the valves/valve guides in these K series engines, does it have to be done by a machine shop, or is it possible to do it yourself?

 

Got the old mowing deck from the 1650 put back together and mounted on the tractor.  Spent about 10 minutes cutting grass today to see how it worked and there seems to be some vibration in it.  I sharpened and balanced the blades, is there anything else that would cause this vibration?






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