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Bringing A Cub 1650 Back To Life


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#46 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted January 18, 2014 - 01:04 PM

I'm and old welder so your going to have to bear with me. If it were me and I was building up those worn areas on the frame I would use 7018 rod. You would be less likely to develop any stress cracks along the edges of your welds. There will be a lot of vibration and stress in this area. I would weld around the hole first and continue outward from there.

Good luck 


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#47 dthomp17 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 18, 2014 - 05:41 PM

Chris, I believe you're talking about using a stick welder to build up the worn areas, I'm not familiar with 7018 rod. All I have is a 220 volt 175 amp wire feed welder that can use either flux core wire or solid mig wire with argon/CO2 purge gas. I've never had any formal training, I've learned by trial and error. Sometimes I can lay down a real nice looking bead and other times not so hot.

Anyway, I've already put the engine back in the tractor and I'm waiting for the head gasket I ordered to come in. Sometime the middle of next week I hope. I want to run the tractor a little and see how the new engine mounts work and also see if the new head gasket makes any difference in engine performance. I'm thinking that sometime in the not too distant future I'll be looking at an engine rebuild. When I pull the engine again, I'll look at the worn areas and decide what to do. Do you think a welder like mine would work OK to build up those areas? Can you get 7018 mig wire?

#48 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted January 18, 2014 - 10:13 PM

   Good question about the wire equivalent to 7018. I'm sure the answer is yes but I am not up to date on what the equivalent  product would be. It wouldn't make fiscal sense to purchase a roll of wire for one small project. You could do it with your wire feed and it would actually be easier when working around the holes. The 7018 would have just been my preferred method but old stick welders are becoming less and less common. It's amazing how many times I've had to explain to younger people what brazing or carbon arc welding is.

   I have to admit that most of my welding is done with a wire welder.  :smilewink:


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#49 earthgrinder OFFLINE  

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Posted January 18, 2014 - 11:18 PM

I did the cradle upgrade for my son's 1650.  For the iso mounts, there are a lot of thoughts out there.  I hear some of the new iso mount bushings are too hard and the engine shakes terribly.  Here is what I did.  I reused the top ones, they are usually good.  I went to my local Cub used parts guy, Ray Weaver, I got 4 used ones from him that he salvaged from parts tractors.  He saves all the top bushings for reuse.  My son's 1650 is smoother than my 147.  Many guys say the 1650's will rattle the fillings out of your teeth. Based only on my son's 1650, I don't know what all the complaining is about.


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#50 earthgrinder OFFLINE  

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Posted January 19, 2014 - 02:12 PM

Another thing to watch out for.  If you end up needing a piston, beware some after market pistons have heavier wrist pins.  That will change the balance of the engine and contribute to vibration.  I think that is one reason my 147 is worse than my son's 1650.  Due to a senior moment I had to disassemble my 147 and noted I had the heavier wrist pin.  I was able to get a Kohler wrist pin to reassemble it, plus I am reinstalling the balance gears.  I don't have it running yet, but expect a much smoother engine.


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#51 dthomp17 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 19, 2014 - 03:33 PM

Thanks for your input Earthgrinder. My original idea was to either replace the mounts with the Moog bushings or do what you did with your son's 1650 iso mounts and move the top mounts to the bottom. My top mounts were in such bad shape that I was afraid to re-use them. In addition, some of the metal bushings in my mounts were also damaged. Because of this, I bit the bullet and went with Cub OEM parts. More money than I wanted to spend but hopefully I won't regret it. It looks like that Cub has modified the design of their replacement iso mounts. The top and bottom mounts are significantly different now and I don't think they can be interchanged by swapping from the top to the bottom. I've put the engine back on the tractor but waiting till I get my new head gasket to start it and check it out. I'll keep your comment on using after market parts in mind if and when I decide to do an engine rebuild.
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#52 earthgrinder OFFLINE  

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Posted January 19, 2014 - 04:45 PM

Let me know how the new Cub mounts work.  I have been told they are harder in durometer and may allow more vibration at first until they are run for a while and get broken in.



#53 dthomp17 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 19, 2014 - 07:59 PM

I've heard the same thing about the mounts being harder. Some have suggested not tightening to the recommended 8 ft lbs of torque but only tighten till there is about one thread of the bolt sticking out of the lock nut. May have to do some fine tuning on the nut tightening. I'll let you know how they work.

#54 dthomp17 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 27, 2014 - 03:44 PM

I did the engine cradle upgrade, installed the new isomounts, and the new head gasket. I started the tractor today to see how things were working. The engine still smokes on start up and there's still a lot of engine vibration with the new mounts. At least it's the whole tractor shaking now and not just the engine on loose mounts. At this point, I'm not convinced that using Cub OEM isomounts are much better than using some cheaper after market mounts that are available. Maybe it will smooth out somewhat with more running. Some other articles I've read indicate that it will get better.

While I had it apart, I tried to repair some of the stress cracked sheet metal around the engine with my mig welder and ended up causing more damage than I repaired. Still a novice at welding on thin stuff and it Warped badly.


Old piece of sheet metal picture DSCF0019.JPG


I had some similar thickness sheet metal in my scrap pile so I tried making another piece and it seems to be working fine.


Homemade replacement DSCF0020.JPG DSCF0021.JPG



I also made a muffler crutch to help support the other end of the muffler DSCF0023.JPG



Muffler crutch installed DSCF0024.JPG


Looks like this project may have to be put on hold for awhile. I've been doing some re-modeling on our kitchen (building some new cabinets and some new cabinet fronts) and my wife wants me to get back to work on that.
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#55 zippy1 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 29, 2014 - 01:07 AM

I installed the cub iso mounts on my dual stick 1650 also. Did the cradle mod as well. When I rebuilt the engine the balance gears went out the door, sure there's vibration, but that beats a window in the side of the block. (my 2 cents)

We normally tighten the ISO mounts with two threads showing and use NEW nylon nuts. The snubbers I don't recall, but I remember the gap is in the service manual.

Nice job on the muffle crutch. And as for the engine tins, your not alone. What I did to repair mine was low heat, and tack weld, let cool, tack, let cool till I had the cracks repaired.


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#56 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted January 29, 2014 - 08:23 AM

They do shake at lower RPM's.

On the sheet metal repair, what size wire did you have in the mig? I would use .023 for something like this. IF you have a flat piece of brass, clamp it to the back side to help with burn through. Use a stitch weld (tack weld, move over or let cool before doing another)to keep from over heating the area. Here's something I found that may help.

Attached File  MIGWire.pdf   827.28KB   462 downloads

 



#57 dthomp17 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 29, 2014 - 11:48 AM

I installed the cub iso mounts on my dual stick 1650 also. Did the cradle mod as well. When I rebuilt the engine the balance gears went out the door, sure there's vibration, but that beats a window in the side of the block. (my 2 cents)
We normally tighten the ISO mounts with two threads showing and use NEW nylon nuts. The snubbers I don't recall, but I remember the gap is in the service manual.
Nice job on the muffle crutch. And as for the engine tins, your not alone. What I did to repair mine was low heat, and tack weld, let cool, tack, let cool till I had the cracks repaired.


Thanks Zippy, obviously I need a lot of practice on my thin metal welding before I try it again. I tried low heat but for some reason my wire feeder was not working smoothly and that was part of the problem. I've read a lot of other comments recommending getting rid of the balance gears. Not real familiar with Kohler engines so I may need a lot of help when it comes time to rebuild.

#58 dthomp17 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 29, 2014 - 11:55 AM

They do shake at lower RPM's.
On the sheet metal repair, what size wire did you have in the mig? I would use .023 for something like this. IF you have a flat piece of brass, clamp it to the back side to help with burn through. Use a stitch weld (tack weld, move over or let cool before doing another)to keep from over heating the area. Here's something I found that may help.
attachicon.gifMIGWire.pdf


Thanks Kenny, I don't have a piece of brass but I do have a sheet of copper. Would that work as well? I appreciate your welding suggestions and the pdf file. I saved the file and I'm sure I'll refer to it regularly.

#59 dthomp17 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 30, 2014 - 08:20 AM

Engine question. When I had the head off the engine and the valves fully opened, I noticed a significant amount of play in the exhaust valve and no noticeable play in the intake valve. Would this cause oil burning? Also there seems to be some kind of obstruction when you insert the oil dipstick about an inch and a half before fully inserted. I'm thinking I probably need to go ahead and tear down the engine to see what's going on and probably a re-build. Any thoughts?????

#60 zippy1 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 30, 2014 - 09:17 AM

Engine question. When I had the head off the engine and the valves fully opened, I noticed a significant amount of play in the exhaust valve and no noticeable play in the intake valve. Would this cause oil burning? Also there seems to be some kind of obstruction when you insert the oil dipstick about an inch and a half before fully inserted. I'm thinking I probably need to go ahead and tear down the engine to see what's going on and probably a re-build. Any thoughts?????

Without actually seeing your valve and feeling it myself, if I recall there shouldn't be any play in either valve. As for your dipstick, on my engine it will only go in one way. I need to rotate it one way or another before it will insert completely. There isn't anything in the tube that would stop the dip stick from going in. 

When you had the head off was there a lot of carbon buildup in the head? What does your plug look like after running the tractor? Is the tractor consuming excessive amounts of oil while it's being operated?

If you cover these questions earlier please excuse me for asking again.






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