Jump to content

Nominations for Tractor of the Month
Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
- - - - -

Got A Crazy Idea!


  • Please log in to reply
32 replies to this topic

#16 BairleaFarm OFFLINE  

BairleaFarm

    Member

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 8328
  • 1,201 Thanks
  • 1,725 posts

Posted December 29, 2013 - 09:20 PM

I missed these on craigslist not to long ago. They went for 250$ IIRC. They would be perfect. I too would like a crawler.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

Attached Thumbnails

  • uploadfromtaptalk1388369984876.jpg

  • Matt O said thank you

#17 Ryan313 OFFLINE  

Ryan313

    PK Fanatic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 7087
  • 3,239 Thanks
  • 5,159 posts
  • Location: Wallkill, NY

Posted December 30, 2013 - 05:10 PM

I would love to build a few and have them all different styles, but I am having no luck finding ONE tractor with the right setup in my price range, overall condition doesn't matter to me but around here the prices are sky high, even for JUNK!! But I like the way you think!


I am sure you will find something soon, people will be wanting to clean up around the yard this spring, and you will likely find some good deals then. When that happens, I will be here eagerly awaiting this build to start.
  • Matt O said thank you

#18 Matt O OFFLINE  

Matt O
  • Member
  • Member No: 28054
  • 119 Thanks
  • 97 posts
  • Location: Swansea, MA

Posted January 27, 2014 - 06:51 PM

Every day this build get a little crazier and now my head is spinning. I have seen many things I like on a Struck dozer and want to do the same on mine but just cant figure out how. one thing that I need help on is the track setup. I want high tracks but normally on a dozer, the highest sprocket is the drive and the lower ones are idlers or guides. if I have my lower back one the drive, will this present any problems or should it be fine? I didn't want my tractor too high off the ground but think I should have my top sprocket the drive. My idea was to have the driver sit low between the tracks like and older straight track dozer but I don't know how this will look or if it will even work?


  • Chopperhed said thank you

#19 Chopperhed OFFLINE  

Chopperhed
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 20120
  • 1,852 Thanks
  • 1,071 posts
  • Location: Edmonton, Ab, Canada

Posted January 27, 2014 - 08:17 PM

The smaller you make the drive sprocket the lower your speed. For mine, I decided that 1/2 normal speed would be fast enough, other wise I could have used a chain drive to a rear driver in a low drive setup.

I'm planning a hi drive, using sprockets mounted to the hubs, Mt sprockets have a 12-1/2 ins pitch diameter which is just a little less than half of the original rear tire diameter, which will give me about 3.5 mph in high range.

I would have liked a lo drive setup like the cub cadet above, but I don't want to cut up the stock sheet metal too much. As it is I will have to lift it quite a bit to get the fenders to clear the tracks.

I've decided to use calipers using automotive pads, acting directly on the drive sprockets. Linkage will be mechanical, with plenty of leverage. and will mostly be attached to the undercarriage.

Edited by Chopperhed, January 27, 2014 - 08:48 PM.

  • Matt O said thank you

#20 BTS ONLINE  

BTS

    Make Stuff Up

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 11851
  • 2,712 Thanks
  • 1,721 posts
  • Location: BURNS KS

Posted January 28, 2014 - 09:20 AM

I am building tracks for my John Deere 140 H3.

I thought it would be a good garden tractor to use because it has a brake for each back wheel, then I can just step on the left brake to turn left and step on the right brake to turn right.

It is a hydro, I am hoping it's going to work, but I guess I will see when I test drive it in a few weeks.

I have made everything from the sub frame to the tracks and sprockets, so far it's going pretty good and everything seems to be working.

Here are a few pictures of my design.

I am using the original hydraulic blade and I also have a loader that I am going to put on it, I built a sub frame that is going to hold all the weight, so there is going to be no stress at all on the garden tractor it's self. The have not used any fancy tools or equipment to build this, just a cutting torch, angle grinder and a old welder.

Good luck on your project!

Attached Thumbnails

  • John Deere 140 007.JPG
  • John Deere 140 012.JPG

  • Matt O said thank you

#21 BTS ONLINE  

BTS

    Make Stuff Up

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 11851
  • 2,712 Thanks
  • 1,721 posts
  • Location: BURNS KS

Posted January 28, 2014 - 09:24 AM

Oh, here is a link to a current thread that I have on building my crawler http://gardentractor...-crawler-build/

Here is a old thread that I started several months ago (before I got busy with work and took a month break) http://gardentractor...-140-make-over/


  • Matt O said thank you

#22 Matt O OFFLINE  

Matt O
  • Member
  • Member No: 28054
  • 119 Thanks
  • 97 posts
  • Location: Swansea, MA

Posted January 28, 2014 - 04:37 PM

I notice BTS made his drive where it would be on an actual dozer but that makes the tractor pretty high off the ground. If I made my drive the lower back sprocket, would that put a lot of stress on the transmission, having to push the track up as well as move the tractor. this idea would keep the tractor about 6 inches off the ground, which gives it the factory stance. Any opinions? and Good Job on that JD 140. Its looking good and cant wait to see it finished!


  • BTS and Chopperhed have said thanks

#23 BTS ONLINE  

BTS

    Make Stuff Up

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 11851
  • 2,712 Thanks
  • 1,721 posts
  • Location: BURNS KS

Posted January 28, 2014 - 08:27 PM

Thanks
 

This JD 140 does sit pretty high, I wanted it to be a little higher so it can go over stuff better, I also have a backhoe that I'm going to put on it and the gt will half to sit higher so the backhoe will mount correctly.

If you are building your crawler for a blade only, it probably doesn't need to be that stout of a set up.

I wouldn't think having your drive sprockets low would matter, having the factory height would be fine, but it just depends on what you are going to be doing with it. Since I want my crawler to be the "ultimate" pushing, pulling and digging machine, I wanted it to be really heavy and stout so I don't half to worry about messing anything up when I use it.

 

When it comes to what garden tractor to use, the easiest would probably be one with individual brakes like the 140 that I used.

You could also go with hydraulic motors for each back sprocket, but that would be a lot of trouble and expensive.

You could also make brakes for each rear sprocket but again it would be a hassle to build.

Good luck on your build, keep all of us updated

Thanks


  • Matt O said thank you

#24 Chopperhed OFFLINE  

Chopperhed
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 20120
  • 1,852 Thanks
  • 1,071 posts
  • Location: Edmonton, Ab, Canada

Posted January 29, 2014 - 09:41 PM

I notice BTS made his drive where it would be on an actual dozer but that makes the tractor pretty high off the ground. If I made my drive the lower back sprocket, would that put a lot of stress on the transmission, having to push the track up as well as move the tractor. this idea would keep the tractor about 6 inches off the ground, which gives it the factory stance. Any opinions? and Good Job on that JD 140. Its looking good and cant wait to see it finished!


Either way will be stressfull, but

The transmission was built to move the tractor on a 23x 8.50 x 12 tire (or something close)

It was also designed to carry the weight of said tractor.

With the hi drive setup. the tractor weight is carried by the undercarriage and idlers, however, track tension will put side forces on the axle bearings that are probably close to equal to carrying the weight of the tractor.
On the other hand a lo drive setup still has an undercarriage carrying most of the tractor weight. The drive sprocket is still carrying part of the weight, but the idlers or rails or whatever, carry a percentage of the weight as well as the front sprocket.

IMHO the weight difference pretty much cancels itself out either way.

As far as driveline loads from trying to turn the tracks, it depends on a few things.
In my design, I'm running drive sprockets that are roughly 45% of the circumference of my original tires. This will give me a 3.5 mph speed in high range. It also reduces the strain on the rotating assembly by about the same amount. However, the strain of trying to pull 14' of steel track will probably cancel the torque advantage out too.

I can't see a real issue either way if you have a solid transmission. It really depends on the size of the drive sprocket. The smaller the sprocket the easier time the tractor will have pulling it. However, small sprocket equals slow speed better torque
  • Matt O said thank you

#25 trowel OFFLINE  

trowel

    Summer.

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 5127
  • 4,819 Thanks
  • 4,533 posts
  • Location: ma.

Posted January 29, 2014 - 11:21 PM

Sticking my neck out a little,

Have thought about using dual action Hydo gear pumps/motors say from Haldex ? heavy duty type with gear reduction for the tracks, replace the tranny with a pump and reservoir tank.

Think excavator as an example, the hydro gear motors produces high torque and more so when geared down. A two way valve for each track and all ready to run hydro lift attachments.

Depending on your location parts from a small Air Track driller's assy could be modified for a very heavy duty set up. Another thing to grab for a smaller set up is tracked trench diggers, many are all ready hydo diven.


  • Matt O said thank you

#26 TUDOR OFFLINE  

TUDOR

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 915
  • 543 Thanks
  • 497 posts
  • Location: Sault Ste Marie, Ontario

Posted January 30, 2014 - 04:32 AM

Wheel motor - http://www.surplusce...OTOR-9-7735.axd

 

Hub for wheel motor - http://www.surplusce...ERED-1-3161.axd

 

Hydro pump comes in left and right configuration for swash plate control - http://www.surplusce...11-9-8239-R.axd

 

Add a small pump (0.20 cu-in) for blade lift and angle hydraulics or (0.36 cu-in) for FEL hydraulics.

 

This combination will result in approximately 120 rpm at full throttle. About 4.5 mph top speed with a 12.5" sprocket. Torque per motor with this is approximately 460 ft-lb, or 920 ft lb total output.

 

You want a very heavy base and carriage frame to handle the power potential and deliver it to the ground. For reference, a MF 1655 can deliver 792 ft-lb of torque to the rear axle in low range. At 2250 lb, mine isn't heavy enough to deliver that much to the ground without breaking traction at 2/3 throttle.

 

Torque delivery is dependant on pressure, not rpm.

 

Horsepower delivery is dependant on rpm and pressure.

 

At half throttle (2400 rpm), each pump will soak up about 12 hp at max pressure and flow (about 10 gpm) for a final drive speed of 80 rpm (3 mph) and about 9 hp per track. You may not think so, but 9 hp per track is a lot of juice for a little crawler and you can only get it at max speed and pressure.

 

No wheel brakes are required with hydro control. One track can be reversed while the other goes forward. The dozer blade makes a fine parking brake.


Edited by TUDOR, January 30, 2014 - 04:46 AM.

  • MH81, trowel and Matt O have said thanks

#27 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

skyrydr2

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5032
  • 3,404 Thanks
  • 3,155 posts
  • Location: Gardner, Massachusetts!

Posted January 30, 2014 - 06:56 AM

Bob are you sure its foot lbs. Of output or pound in.?? All the hydro componentsiI looked at were rated in pound inches? I know this is confusing and gets me sometimes too ;-)
  • Matt O said thank you

#28 TUDOR OFFLINE  

TUDOR

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 915
  • 543 Thanks
  • 497 posts
  • Location: Sault Ste Marie, Ontario

Posted January 30, 2014 - 09:04 AM

Bob are you sure its foot lbs. Of output or pound in.?? All the hydro componentsiI looked at were rated in pound inches? I know this is confusing and gets me sometimes too ;-)

I usually do the conversions to ft-lb for my benefit. The specs say 9700 in-lb at 2500 psi. The max continuous pressure for the pump is 1425 psi which will have the motor produce up to 5529 in-lb, or 460.75 ft-lb.

 

Decimal places, I don't mind. Large numbers in front of the decimal place is something else again. I count 1 ... 2 ... 3 ... a whole bunch.

 

Try our metric system. Our national highway coast to coast is 4500 miles long, or 7250 kilometers. Which one is more intimidating?


Edited by TUDOR, January 30, 2014 - 09:12 AM.

  • Matt O said thank you

#29 BTS ONLINE  

BTS

    Make Stuff Up

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 11851
  • 2,712 Thanks
  • 1,721 posts
  • Location: BURNS KS

Posted January 30, 2014 - 09:40 AM

I actually have quite a few of those piston pumps brand new, I got them at a hustler mower auction once. I also have a pair of motors with hubs and brakes on them. I also have a quite a few hydraulic pumps, one is off a Case 530CK (55hp loader backhoe) and it is 22gpm.

 

Hmmmm........ Maybe I should be going this route!!!!! :worship: :thumbs:


  • Matt O said thank you

#30 trowel OFFLINE  

trowel

    Summer.

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 5127
  • 4,819 Thanks
  • 4,533 posts
  • Location: ma.

Posted January 30, 2014 - 09:51 AM

Seems to me hydro would lend itself quite well, simpler set up with durability in mind for a mini dozer.


  • Matt O said thank you




Top