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Weights On Gt?


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#1 Alberta Bolens OFFLINE  

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Posted December 19, 2013 - 07:14 PM

Iv'e been using GT for lot of years for pushing snow and snow blowing.  425 john deere with blade and 1050 Bolens with blade or blower.  Chained up and both units have a diff lock system. Don't usually have problems with traction, but on occasion its an issue.

Using the blower on the Bolens I know weight would help have never worried to much about it.

 

Question.  How much weight does it take to make a difference?  

 

I have a source of plate steel circles that I could make wheel weights from.  Or a frame on the back for some sort of hanging weights.

 

Question. Which is better wheel weights or hanging weights

 

Thanks for your input and thoughts.

 

 


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#2 IamSherwood OFFLINE  

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Posted December 19, 2013 - 07:36 PM

Putting weights out the back, puts a load on your rear axles. Wheel weights

don't. I'm not familiar with either of your machines, so I can't comment on

how tough they are, but I have seen pictures of broken axles and trumpets

caused by too much load out the back.

Myself, I'd do both. Just not overboard on either.


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#3 GlenPettit OFFLINE  

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Posted December 19, 2013 - 07:59 PM

•  Even a little weight will make a difference, but where it is, is very important.

•  Adding 200# on the back wheels plus about 50# on the front wheels is great.

•  Your "Foot print" is very important, how much rubber is on the ground, and less is better.  Traction is PSI (pounds per square inch), bar-lug tires will give a lot more traction in mud, snow & ice than regular turf tires can. We use skis & snowshoes to glide gently on the snow, giving us a bigger footprint; but for traction, we want a lot of force in a very small spot.  Also, new tires are so much better than old worm rounded tires.

Chains really can improve traction but can also damage pavement.

•  Where the weight is counts:  Avoid behind the rear axle, it actually lifts the front, reduces steering control.  Very best place is IN the wheels, a liquid like "RimGuard" is the very best most safe liquid, at 11#/gal (16" front tire holds 2 gal, 22# -- and 23" rear tire holds 5+ gal), you don't see it and it's out-of-the-way.  Second best is on the wheel, inside the rim, bolted to it (and on the inside side of the wheel is better).  Worst place is to hang it out behind the rear end, plus it's often in the way.  Also, always have 20PSI in the tires in the Winter (firm tire = traction), and only 10PSI in the Summer (soft tire  = gentle on grass).

•   When the snow thrower is up, it is a lot of weight on the front, but when it's down in use and working, it actually lightens the front of your GT, then we loose steering control and get side-sway.  That's why we need to have weight on the front tires, out from the frame and very low, again, fluid is the best here, wheel weights second best.

•  But, all this being said:  it's what you have to work with, what you can get and how much $$$ you have.  You don't need weight when cutting grass in the summer (and fluid has to stay in), new tires or new weights can cost, use what you have.  But add weight in the Winter, and with all the weight, don't drive it like a 4-wheeler in the woods or you will damage things.


Edited by GlenPettit, December 19, 2013 - 08:05 PM.

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#4 bgkid2966 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 19, 2013 - 09:53 PM

•  Even a little weight will make a difference, but where it is, is very important.

•  Adding 200# on the back wheels plus about 50# on the front wheels is great.

•  Your "Foot print" is very important, how much rubber is on the ground, and less is better.  Traction is PSI (pounds per square inch), bar-lug tires will give a lot more traction in mud, snow & ice than regular turf tires can. We use skis & snowshoes to glide gently on the snow, giving us a bigger footprint; but for traction, we want a lot of force in a very small spot.  Also, new tires are so much better than old worm rounded tires.

Chains really can improve traction but can also damage pavement.

•  Where the weight is counts:  Avoid behind the rear axle, it actually lifts the front, reduces steering control.  Very best place is IN the wheels, a liquid like "RimGuard" is the very best most safe liquid, at 11#/gal (16" front tire holds 2 gal, 22# -- and 23" rear tire holds 5+ gal), you don't see it and it's out-of-the-way.  Second best is on the wheel, inside the rim, bolted to it (and on the inside side of the wheel is better).  Worst place is to hang it out behind the rear end, plus it's often in the way.  Also, always have 20PSI in the tires in the Winter (firm tire = traction), and only 10PSI in the Summer (soft tire  = gentle on grass).

•   When the snow thrower is up, it is a lot of weight on the front, but when it's down in use and working, it actually lightens the front of your GT, then we loose steering control and get side-sway.  That's why we need to have weight on the front tires, out from the frame and very low, again, fluid is the best here, wheel weights second best.

•  But, all this being said:  it's what you have to work with, what you can get and how much $$$ you have.  You don't need weight when cutting grass in the summer (and fluid has to stay in), new tires or new weights can cost, use what you have.  But add weight in the Winter, and with all the weight, don't drive it like a 4-wheeler in the woods or you will damage things.

 

 

Well said!

 

 

 

 

Geno


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#5 Alberta Bolens OFFLINE  

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Posted December 19, 2013 - 10:13 PM

Perfect thanks for the input.  

For rear wheels weights I can get circles of 3/4"or 1" inch plate.  7", 8 5/8", 10 3/4", 12 3/4" diameters.  I have not measured inside of my rims yet.  I would pick one close.  I believe there are holes in the rims i could run bolts through to fasten the weights.  I would just need to drill some matching holes in the plate.   The price for rear wheels would be handful of longer bolts or redi-rod, smidgen of paint and  my time.  Dirt Cheap.

 

I don't think I could do this on the front rims.  When using the blade the steering usually isn't an issue.  When using the snowblower is when I have the problem.  I have a slight slope I go down and when I back up I spin.  Ground is frozen hard, so the chains do not bite.  I'm sure weight on the rear rims would help this. 

 

Now I have a project for the weekend.  I'll post some photos.


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#6 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted December 20, 2013 - 08:12 AM

Wheel weight makes a huge difference. Chains are the biggest help but getting more weight on the wheels isalos a big help. That 425 could really benefit from some wheel weight and maybe even a bit of weight off the back. You should be able to get close to 100lbs on each wheel. This will make quite a difference on ice or if you have hills. I had an x475 which is the newer version. I had AG's on it , 2 link chains, wheel weights and about 150lbs on back. It would move a lot of snow set up like that. Too much eight out back and you'll have trouble steering on slippery surfaces.


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#7 Dane in PA ONLINE  

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Posted December 20, 2013 - 09:33 AM

Here is what I ran on my Sears I have for sale, just to test it out.  33# on each wheel, 6.5" Sears tires with nearly perfect tread, and 168# hanging off the 3-pt, plus my 130# frame.       

It did fairly well, and only spun out when on ice (was pushing heavy slush)

 

I don't steer much while plowing, as my driveway is pretty straight --so there is less of a need for front weight.   I need rear weight as my driveway has an up-hill slope to it.

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#8 jpackard56 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 20, 2013 - 01:20 PM

Glen nailed this down pretty good. The only thing I have tried different is on really hard packed snow base or ice I use a tractor with rim guard, turfs and chains (but I have more than one unit set up depending on conditions). The turfs seem to hold more of the chain against the ice. I have hills and curves. 90% of the time I use ags with rim guard in all 4, but every once and a while the turf with chains comes out of the barn. Good luck, those plates mounted inside should be a good start.


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#9 TUDOR OFFLINE  

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Posted December 22, 2013 - 02:49 AM

Ags are for soft footing conditions. Hard packed snow or ice doesn't qualify as soft footing. For hard pack, the number of inches of tread block edge biting the hard pack is where the traction comes from.Turfs have more inches of tread block than ags. For ice, turfs will grab any imperfections available while the harder rubber in ags just slide across the imperfections or break them off. A set of chains on turfs give multiple points of contact across the width of the tire improving the traction available, even on ice.

 

My MF1655 FEL with a 54" bucket and a 5' back blade had few traction problems, even pulling cars and trucks out of snowbanks.It ran for 12 years with only calcium ballasted and chained turfs and a 50 lb rack on the back behind the seat to mount the hydraulic pump and auxilliary valves.

 

SOP was to break trail from the street, 250' to the snow dump behind the garage through up to 18" of fresh snow, pushing the bucket and pulling the back blade at the same time, in one continuous pass. The only ballast having an effect on traction was the 320 lb of calcium, 30 lb of 2-link chains and the 50 lb hydraulic system mounting rack. Total 400 lb, and no diff lock. The only time it spun the tires was pushing a bucket load of snow up a snow bank and when backing over the pile left by the back blade, unless I horsed the drive control pedal. The tractor weighed something a bit over 2250 lb with the loader, back blade, and ballast.

 

My 4wd SCUT weighs about the same only without the chains on its loaded turfs and with a lighter 47" bucket plus a 5' back blade. It doesn't quite match the traction of the GT, even with 4wd engaged, but it also pulls cars and trucks out of snowbanks.


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#10 Alberta Bolens OFFLINE  

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Posted December 22, 2013 - 01:02 PM

I went dumpster diving at work yesterday.  Brought home 6 larger 1" thick plates and 2 smaller ones 1" thick..  I didn't have my tape measure.  

So ended  up I didn't do the wheel weight plan, as the larger plater are 16 inch to big to fit the rims nicely.  The smaller ones are 12 inch.  

To try out some weight I built a bracket for the 3 point hitch. (Figure the rototiller for the 425 weights close to 200lbs comes with front suitcase weights)  put 4 of the 16" plates on.  Seems to work well.  Each 1"x16" plate weighs about 60lbs. so 240lbs extra weight.  

Tomorrow I'll go dumpster diving again but I'll take a tape so I get the 8" and 12" circles that will fit the rims better

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#11 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted December 22, 2013 - 01:24 PM

Dumpster diving can be fun!


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#12 Alberta Bolens OFFLINE  

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Posted December 22, 2013 - 02:23 PM

Dumpster diving can be fun!

Think I'm going to be lazy and get the guys in the shop to set aside a few 8" and 12" circles for me.  


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#13 twostep OFFLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2013 - 12:22 PM

I went dumpster diving at work yesterday.  Brought home 6 larger 1" thick plates and 2 smaller ones 1" thick..  I didn't have my tape measure.  

So ended  up I didn't do the wheel weight plan, as the larger plater are 16 inch to big to fit the rims nicely.  The smaller ones are 12 inch.  

To try out some weight I built a bracket for the 3 point hitch. (Figure the rototiller for the 425 weights close to 200lbs comes with front suitcase weights)  put 4 of the 16" plates on.  Seems to work well.  Each 1"x16" plate weighs about 60lbs. so 240lbs extra weight.  

Tomorrow I'll go dumpster diving again but I'll take a tape so I get the 8" and 12" circles that will fit the rims better

dang... I wish I knew where that dumpster was!!



#14 Alberta Bolens OFFLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2013 - 04:21 PM

dang... I wish I knew where that dumpster was!!

Ponoka Alberta.  


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#15 Alberta Bolens OFFLINE  

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Posted November 08, 2014 - 10:16 PM

Change of plan for weights this winter.  I recently bought a 317 with wheel weights and fluid in the tire.  As it has no blade I swapped the tires and rims from the 317 to my 425.  I also turned the tires so they are mounted with the wide stance.  Tomorrow I'll chain up the 425.  Let it Snow Let it Snow. :dancingbanana:






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