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Case 444 Tiller


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#1 Artbcase OFFLINE  

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Posted December 16, 2013 - 11:20 AM

Hello fellow garden tractor maniacs. I have a 1977 case 444. Runs very well very strong however when I hook up tiller unit and try to run the keyway on hydraulic pump on engine breaks. Tried 3 times. Had orbital gear looked at and it seems ok. Any help? I am not recognizing relief valve on pto. So now what?

#2 gopher OFFLINE  

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Posted December 16, 2013 - 10:42 PM

At first I could not see how you could shear key way with relieve valves not having pto on any of my tractors. but the pto is ahead of relieve valves. So evidently ether the tiller drive motor is locked up or tiller is. Pull your tiller drive motor grab a tine and see if you can turn the tines if you can I'd say your drive motor locked up. The pto does have relieve valve you'll have to look up the type of pto you have for details removal and repair. Should be standard spring ball and seat. Regardless of the relieve not functioning some thing is dead heading the oil flow.


Edited by gopher, December 16, 2013 - 11:01 PM.


#3 Artbcase OFFLINE  

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Posted December 17, 2013 - 07:17 AM

Tiller shaft and tines are removed so only the orbital gear is hooked up. I have had it tested it rotates. Gressen 575 pto. I will check more into relief valve ball spring.

#4 kencombs OFFLINE  

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Posted December 17, 2013 - 11:25 AM

More info needed!  Do you have the Case rear hyd PTO?  Or just running hosed to/from the tiller?

 

The PTO does have an internal bypass when in nuetral and a relief that used that bypass when needed.

 

Are you using quick connects or screw connections?

 

Bottom line:  something is blocking the fluid flow from the pump to (pto?) to travel control valve.

 

Maybe if you can post a pic of the tiller installation we can get a handle on the problem..

 

But, be careful.  you have been fortunate that the key broke.  Many have broken the pump housing when running it deadheaded!!



#5 kencombs OFFLINE  

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Posted December 17, 2013 - 11:38 AM

I finally saw that you have a Gresen 575 valve for the PTO.    From what I see online, that valve has no 'nuetral' or bypass position and probably no relief valve.  If that's true, there is no way to run the tractor engine without running the tiller motor.  Might make it hard to start.  also in cold weather the thick oil may cause a pressure spike in the circuit, causing your issue. 

 

Again, pic, installation diagram or lots more info needed.



#6 Artbcase OFFLINE  

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Posted December 18, 2013 - 08:34 AM

Thanks guys. I will post pics ASAP. No cold weather isn't problem this all happened in summer. I will post pics of rear pto and orbital gear.

#7 Artbcase OFFLINE  

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Posted December 18, 2013 - 12:31 PM

Ken. Yes I can run engine without engaging rear pto. When tiller isn't hooked up I can engage pto and I feel pressure in Hoses. I will post pics.

#8 dave8338 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 18, 2013 - 08:19 PM

Are you using genuine key stock, very hard (dark gray to black in color) or the shiny silver stuff you can get at the hardware store?



#9 Artbcase OFFLINE  

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Posted December 19, 2013 - 05:12 AM

Hardware store keys

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#10 Artbcase OFFLINE  

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Posted December 19, 2013 - 05:15 AM

image.jpg

#11 dave8338 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 21, 2013 - 12:56 PM

It has been my experience that the Woodruff keys at the hardware stores are too soft and prone to failure. This may or may not be your case, but I would source a key or two elsewhere and see if it makes a difference.



#12 Artbcase OFFLINE  

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Posted February 07, 2014 - 08:57 AM

Hey guys I finally hooked up a pressure gauge to rear pto on tractor. It isn't a good sign. Pressure is around 150 to 200 psi So probably isn't orbital gear problem it's a pressure problem from rear pto. The drive and lift on tractor is excellent. Any ideas?

#13 Cat385B ONLINE  

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Posted February 07, 2014 - 05:44 PM

Did you try hooking the gauge before the pto valve to see what it reads?

#14 Artbcase OFFLINE  

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Posted February 08, 2014 - 01:03 PM

No. That would be outlet of hydraulic pump. Pto is mounted on left side of engine. I plumbed the lines for tiller easiest place to work. I will work on testing ( replumbing first) the drive and or pump next.

#15 Artbcase OFFLINE  

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Posted February 18, 2014 - 07:25 PM

Ok hooked pressure gauge up after pump before pto. Backed tractor against wall pressure went well over 1200. Prob around 1350 or 1400. Pump is working well. Also when I checked pressure at rear 3 point area I didn't apply force to those hoses to create pressure spike. Next step is to find case w tiller that works and then try that tiller on my tractor. Might be one at farm up road




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