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1999 F450 Super Duty: Work And Repair Thread


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#61 Ryan313 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2013 - 02:03 PM

Ryan sounds like your heading in the right direction , it would really help you if the fellow with the scan tool could look at the ICP while cranking  , the manual says it needs min. of 500 psi to start , does it have enine oil pressure when cranking ?  Also said the oil resvior should be within 1" to the top ,  good luck !

It is about 6-8 inches from the top, so definitely not good.

 

Does the rpm reading on the tach move when you crank the engine? If not you may need a crank sensor for it to fire the injectors. From your description it sounds like the oil level in the high pressure oil pump is low, with out seeing it I can't say for sure. That will also cause the injectors not to fire.

 

Here is a page with some info that might be useful. http://www.intellido...elmann/tech.htm

 

Neighbor Brian gave my Dad a new crank sensor when he was working on it, so that is not the problem.



#62 Ryan313 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2013 - 02:09 PM

Since the truck ran until my dad rebuilt the IPR, I figured I would take it apart, clean it, and see what happened. When I took it apart it was not what I found, but what I didn't find that posed a problem. If you watch the video below, he takes one piece out with a screw driver, the part that he takes out next, by tapping it on the table, was not in my IPR. I went to autozone and bought a new one. Then I got back and put it in, right away of course. I turned the key hoping for it to start and... the batteries are dead. So much for brand new batteries, I normally charge new batteries... these ones I did not.

 


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#63 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2013 - 05:44 PM

Likely you found the problem, but fill that low oil too!


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#64 Ryan313 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2013 - 05:50 PM

Likely you found the problem, but fill that low oil too!


How do I do that? Do I just pour it into the reservoir? Or will it pump it out of the reservoir by itself? When I changed the oil I put 15 quarts in the bottom end, should I put more in the reservoir?

#65 UncleWillie ONLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2013 - 06:00 PM

the simplest problems are usually the hardest to find.


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#66 Walkinman1 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2013 - 06:33 PM

It will pump it up there on its own but it will take some cranking to accomplish it. Be sure to check the oil again afterwards. Btw, if you get it running but have a hard start condition later on make sure that the oil level in the HPOP reservoir is staying up. There's a valve that holds it in there and if that's bad it'll drain out every time you shut it off and make it a bear to start.
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#67 Ryan313 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2013 - 06:34 PM

Both batteries are now fully charged, and it did not make a difference; I thought they were dead since the cranking slowly stopped, and now it just clicks. So, now I started to look for loose connections. I got out the test light and it seems like the wires on the batteries are tight, all wires on the selinoid are good, and where the big power cable goes to the starter there is power. Should the small wire connected to the selionoid on the starter show power? It would not show power at all, and I had somebody else turn the key for me so I could check. I took the wire off, and cleaned it the best I could. Then after it was back on it was no different.

#68 Walkinman1 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2013 - 06:40 PM

You may very well need a new starter as the amperage draw starts getting crazy high as they age; it will crank slowly and kill the batteries quickly no matter what you do. Double check all connections, take them apart, clean and coat with dielectric grease. And yes, that little wire needs power to energize the solenoid on the starter.

#69 Ryan313 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2013 - 07:06 PM

You may very well need a new starter as the amperage draw starts getting crazy high as they age; it will crank slowly and kill the batteries quickly no matter what you do. Double check all connections, take them apart, clean and coat with dielectric grease. And yes, that little wire needs power to energize the solenoid on the starter.


Where does the other side of the small wire go? Does it go to the selinoid or someplace else?

#70 Walkinman1 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2013 - 07:12 PM

If I'm not mistaken one end is connected to the solenoid on the starter, the other end should be connected to the solenoid on the passenger side fender although you may want to grab a wiring diagram and double check as I've been wrong once or twice before :D

#71 Ryan313 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2013 - 07:27 PM

If I'm not mistaken one end is connected to the solenoid on the starter, the other end should be connected to the solenoid on the passenger side fender although you may want to grab a wiring diagram and double check as I've been wrong once or twice before :D


That is what I though, but it was dark and my light was not great so I was not able to follow it very well. Tomorrow I will look into that wire a bit more.

#72 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2013 - 08:18 PM

Glad someone answered how to get the oil in there, as I know NOTHING about these engines.  As to the little wire, it sounds correct, as it has the twin solenoid arrangement like my Cat 910 loader.



#73 nra1ifer OFFLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2013 - 10:54 PM

If you haven't already checked the oil level in the upper reservoir, unscrew the plug that is in the top side and pour as much as you can in there. I'd rather fill it that way than wait for the engine to crank enough oil in it. 

 

Are you certain that the fuel bowl is filling with fuel? You might need to drain that bowl a few times to purge the old fuel out of the lines. As a matter of fact, you can open the petcock on the fuel bowl, energize the fuel pump and/or let the engine crank awhile and push the fuel out that way.

 

And, are you absolutely sure that BOTH batteries are good after sitting for so long? Good batteries will spin the engine quickly. Low batteries might spin the engine enough to get it going, but low voltage/high amperage going to the starter will eventually ruin the starter.


Edited by nra1ifer, December 09, 2013 - 11:49 PM.

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#74 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2013 - 11:57 PM

Ryan, the small wire should have voltage in the crank position only. You can jump it at the starter and make it crank if the starter is OK. It also has to go through the neutral safety switch. You can try it in neutral as well as park.



#75 Walkinman1 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 10, 2013 - 03:26 AM

Nra1fer, that's a good point about checking the batteries but if the starter is going out no batteries will save it, no matter how good they are. I've had 3 sets of batteries in my truck in the last 3 years (all replaced under warranty) and if the truck didn't fire right away in the cold that was all she wrote as the batteries would be almost dead after one attempt. I never even suspected the starter as it seemed to crank over fast enough. Well, the starter finally gave out and it wasn't til I replaced it that I realized what was happening. The new one spins the engine easily twice as fast and my batteries don't suffer either.

If there's any doubt you can test it if you can get ahold of one of those clip on amp draw meters, clip it on near the starter, crank it over and see if it's within spec...

I watched my buddy do one at his work (owner was complaining hard to start) starter was drawing 850 amps but somehow still working. New starter, truck fired almost instantly.
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