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Gggrrr, This 8N Is Making Me Pull My Hair Out.


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#1 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2013 - 08:49 PM

I'm working on a '52 8 N, side distributor. Owner quit using it a couple yrs ago, parked in a garage. I decided to take the "challenge" to get it running for him.

Fuel system was toast. I removed it all, cleaned/ rebuilt carb. New bowl, and cleaned the tank real well.

Got it all back together last Saturday, then no spark. Did some research and prodding tonight. Found I had a rusted up resistor under the dash going to distributor. I temp bypassed to see if I could get juice to coil. That worked, then worked my way out checking each connection, cleaned, re-gapped points, etc  till I got good spark to plugs grounding to block.

Tried to start and plugs are dry, I can only get a seldom- random fire with starting fluid. I pulled the hose/tube from air cleaner and gas ran out of bottom of carb like it was really flooded. Cleaned all that and tried more starter fluid but nothing. I checked fuel flow, good to carb, even unscrewed plug on bottom of bowl, got decent flow out the bowl.

I pulled carb back off to re-clean but I'm losing patience. I know I need to replace resistor, but I other than a carb issue, can't figure out why it won't run. Seems like I got plenty of gas in carb, but not making it up to carb.

Sucks cause it's a 25 min drive out there.

 

Any ideas?

 

 

 


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#2 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2013 - 09:01 PM

If you have gas in the carb and a dry plug, it means you are a) not sucking air on the intake stroke (stuck exhaust valve, bad rings, etc), b) sucking air from somewhere other than the carb (leaking intake gasket, cracked manifold, etc).  

 

If those don't help, shoot some gas into the cylinder(s) via the spark plug hole & see if it will fire.



#3 Gtractor ONLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2013 - 09:03 PM

If you are running a 12 volt battery and bypass the resister it can burn the points to where they won't fire the plugs in a matter of seconds.  Been there -done that.

 

????????


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#4 Sparky OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2013 - 09:07 PM

Cork or material used  for sealing the sediment bowl can jam in carb inthe weidest of ways -  my J.D. 2010 did this all the time until I caught on . The engine can run for a short time , with low power , or just not at all . Hope this helps .



#5 superaben OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2013 - 09:08 PM

Is there a good coil?  One of my two cylinder JDs would not run because the coil was too old I guess.    It had good spark but I guess not good enough spark.  I really never figured out an absolute reason for it to fail like that.

 

Did you try a compression test?  Are the valves sealing right?  

 

 

I have always heard that Fords are notorious for flooding since the whole engine is much lower than the gas tank.  Did you drop the oil and see if it is full of gas?  

 

Ben W.



#6 Rock farmer ONLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2013 - 09:09 PM

I'd suspect you have weak spark. Perhaps low compression.
Pull all the spark plugs. Lay them on the head connected to the wires.
Crank the engine. Good spark? If yes, put I little gas in each cylinder. Re-install the plugs and give it a crank.
If no, then check for spark at the points. Take the cap off and crank the engine. If good spark there, than, re-check the firing order.
If its a six volt system, sometimes the starter takes all the cranking amps leaving nothing for the plugs.
If the spark is good, then you may have stuck valves or compressed rings causing low compression. You can remove the cover plates behind the carberator and check the valves as you crank the engine. You need to have good compression for the engine to suck the gas up to the head. Maybe that's why no one makes up draft carb anymore!

Joe
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#7 Sparky OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2013 - 10:57 PM

The other thing about a Ford 8N - frustration gives way to a log chain and another tractor towing them thru a field with the engine cranking at least 1000 rpm until it gives up and runs . If the rings and valves need reseated add a little two cycle gas mix in - wont hurt .
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#8 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted December 05, 2013 - 06:46 AM

I feal for you , I'm in the same boat with my Ford 3400 is acting the same way and what the others have said about the valves not seating good because of rust dirt ect , rings not sealing , if you can't get it cranking fast enough to pull a vacuum ( I think that's one of my problems ) it will be hard to get it to fire . And if it was a intake valve sticking or not sealing that wouldn't help much either . Good luck !


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#9 WNYTractorTinkerer ONLINE  

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Posted December 05, 2013 - 07:13 AM

Lots of great ideas offered...  

 

A Compression test would tell which way you need to proceed..  Stuck valve or dry/stuck rings..  Test it..

 

Plugs are cheap..  Put in a new set..  



#10 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted December 05, 2013 - 07:23 AM

Check the valves.... This is why it was parked. Your in for a doosy if you don't check the basics first.

#11 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted December 05, 2013 - 07:31 AM

If the tractor has been sitting for a long while, it can get what are called "dry walls."  ....This means the cylinder walls are dry, and the rings are not sealing, which causes low compression/suction. 

 

With all spark plugs out, put about a tablespoon of oil in each cylinder.   .....Either rotate the engine a few turns by hand, or place rags over the spark plug holes and use the starter to spin the engine.  ....Oil will be blown out.  ....After cranking through a few revolutions, replace the spark plugs.

 

Next, hold your hand over the intake of the carb (hose & tube removed) while cranking the engine.  ....A strong suction should be felt.  .....If you do not feel suction on your hand, there is a massive vacuum leak caused by leaking gaskets (manifold-to-block or carb-to-manifold), valves not seating, rings worn excessively, scored cylinder(s), or a bad manifold.

 

There may be fuel getting to the carb bowl, but if there is not adequate vacuum, you will not draw fuel/air mix into the cylinders, so the plugs remain dry.

 

The manifolds on the Fords sometimes rust through between the intake & exhaust passages.  ....A compression or leak-down test will not detect this problem.  .....A compression test, as already suggested, will indicate conditions inside the engine, but if the manifold is bad, there will be little/no suction at the mouth of the carb.


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#12 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted December 05, 2013 - 10:11 AM

Wow, thanks guys, wasn't expecting all these replies....but it is GTT!!!! :thumbs:

 

Ok, so maybe a little more background. The owner has a business, cricket/worm farm to be exact (supplies the reptile fanatics) with a long gravel drive. He only used tractor basically in the winter to keep drive clean of snow or the UPS truck would not pickup their circekt shipments nor customers get down drive. It was 2 or 3 winters ago, we had no snow fall so tractor never got started, then he just paid someone since to plow. He said tractor ran fine, he just quit using it, it has been parked in a garage the whole time even though it looks like it sat outside for 20 yrs before. Bad part is, garage it on backside of hill, I don't see any way of even getting a truck down there to pull it out, at least not without getting stuck on this wet ground we have.

When I got to it, gas system was fuel of rust so I rebuilt carb/tank, then found the lack of spark issue.  Fixed that or so I thought.

This still has the original 6V system/side distributor/cylinder coil so nothing has been changed.

 

After reading all your responses, I'm thinking I got two issues.....

1. Not enough spark to fire, although I would get a spit/sputter on ether.

    I did get what I thought was decent fire on cyls 2 & 3 since they were easiest to pull.

2. Dry cylinders not creating enough vac to suck up gas since it's sat for 2-3 yrs. Carb had gas

    running out of intake side when I pulled pipe off.

 

 

I pulled carb and brought home, going to open it back up just to make sure I did it all correct and make sure I didn't get any junk from all the cleaning. I have the paper gaskets, carb flange to intake was flat, I checked with straight edge.

I read the resistor is not necessary for the 6V coil, but the current one is rusted and won't let juice flow to coil so it needs replaced.

I also bought a new coil/condensor/points I may just put all those on and give it a whirl. I maybe getting a weak spark, not enough to fire it over in conjuction with no vac into engine.

 

 

Next time I take on a learning project, I'll make sure it's my own tractors :wallbanging:  :D

 


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#13 ol' stonebreaker ONLINE  

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Posted December 05, 2013 - 10:34 AM

  It's already been mentioned but I'll say again a comp test will reveal a lot. Especially a dry, then wet test.

                                                       Mike



#14 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted December 05, 2013 - 10:38 AM

  It's already been mentioned but I'll say again a comp test will reveal a lot. Especially a dry, then wet test.

                                                       Mike

 

If I had a gauge..... :wallbanging:  :wallbanging:



#15 HowardsMF155 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 05, 2013 - 10:38 AM

I'll second or third the idea of replacing the plugs.  Sounds like you'll be pulling them anyway, and I've had enough issues that ended up fixing themselves with new plugs and they are fairly cheap, that it's one of the first things I start looking at any more.


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