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Bolens 1886 Forklift Refurb


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#16 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

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Posted December 03, 2013 - 10:20 PM

Ben, A good shop can cut that cylinder apart, rebuild it and weld it back together without hurting the new seals. It should last OB the rest of his life.


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#17 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

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Posted December 03, 2013 - 10:24 PM

 Wow, that thing is amazing. I guess I wasn't aware there was ever a forklift attachment for any garden tractor. AWESOME! :thumbs:

 

Matt

 

Matt, John Deere 140's were the base for someones forklift conversion. I will see if I can still find the info on it. It also had a LPG conversion done on the engine. Case also had one done on their 190 model I think. It was done by a Co. in AL., now of course out of business.


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#18 OldBuzzard ONLINE  

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Posted December 03, 2013 - 11:59 PM

One thing to remember is that this forklift lived a long, hard, life. It was a tool, and used like one.

 

It was used from 1971 up until about 5-6 years ago by a Bolens Dealership/Feed and Seed Store.

 

It would have been used by who knows how many different people, who may of may not have cared if it was abused or not.

 

I have no doubt that the "750 lbs. load limit" on the mast cylinder was tested often, and probably exceeded on more than one occasion.


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#19 superaben OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2013 - 07:20 AM

Ben, A good shop can cut that cylinder apart, rebuild it and weld it back together without hurting the new seals. It should last OB the rest of his life.

 

That's true, Brian, and it has been done before at the shop I usually deal with.  The problem is finding the right seals to make it happen.  I am lining up a replacement cylinder before I let them take the old one apart, just in case they screw something up and can't get parts. 

 

Ben W.


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#20 IamSherwood OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2013 - 07:29 AM

Good plan Ben, but seals should be available.

A good shop, should have enough supply lines

to source them.


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#21 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2013 - 08:54 AM

Is that cylinder welded or some kind of cap ? Anyway the Sherman backhoe thats on my Ford 3400 the outrigger cylinders would drift down quickly but didn't leak out of the rod , I took it apart ,, a hydraulic shop didn't have the correct seals ( if I remember they were very strange ) sold me Chevron seals and I had the pistons machined slightly for the correct ID and width . Are you sure the seals are leaking in the cylinder ? On the same backhoe the single acting swing cylinders would drift because it bleed through the control valve  so I intalled a double check valve to keep that  from happening .

 

http://www.directind...74-1121186.html

 

 This is something like what I used as a double check

 

http://www.go2hydrau...CFag7OgodJBYAmQ


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#22 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2013 - 10:30 AM

That's true, Brian, and it has been done before at the shop I usually deal with.  The problem is finding the right seals to make it happen.  I am lining up a replacement cylinder before I let them take the old one apart, just in case they screw something up and can't get parts. 

 

Ben W.

 

Ben, I have a GREAT Hydraulic shop in San Antonio that if there was a seal made, they have it or can get it. :thumbs:  Check with your local Hydraulic shops on the seals. I doubt that they are odd ball at all, except to us. :(


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#23 superaben OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2013 - 08:34 PM

I hadn't explained yet that Dave wants to get some back tilt on the mast more than we have now to help hold a load on the forks, and the best way to do that is to change to a different cylinder and not try to re engineer the mounting (tilt) setup more than we need to.  That's probably why I'm not forcing the issue with this cylinder very far.  I figure that the brackets are engineered in the right places to get the best capacity on the boom, and any modifications will probably be a stress issue for the metal more than a benefit.  The easiest way to solve this is the cylinder. 

 

I don't know if anyone noticed the picture of the forks where they have a chunk of plyboard behind the forks to give them actually a level when the mast is all the way back. 

 

That leads me to think this cylinder is not original, since there is no way Green would want to see a forklift that doesn't do its job completely. 

 

Is that cylinder welded or some kind of cap ? Anyway the Sherman backhoe thats on my Ford 3400 the outrigger cylinders would drift down quickly but didn't leak out of the rod , I took it apart ,, a hydraulic shop didn't have the correct seals ( if I remember they were very strange ) sold me Chevron seals and I had the pistons machined slightly for the correct ID and width . Are you sure the seals are leaking in the cylinder ? On the same backhoe the single acting swing cylinders would drift because it bleed through the control valve  so I intalled a double check valve to keep that  from happening .

 

http://www.directind...74-1121186.html

 

 This is something like what I used as a double check

 

http://www.go2hydrau...CFag7OgodJBYAmQ

 

Good points there, Al.  I have seen the same thing happen where the valves get stuck over time.  It has crossed my mind.  The control valve unit could very will be a problem, It will be checked too before all is said and done. 

 

I was assuming cylinder, though, since it has lived at the ground all its life and obviously enjoyed the "benefits" of dirt.  It had been leaking around the cylinder, as my shop floor wanted to verify! 

 

Ben, I have a GREAT Hydraulic shop in San Antonio that if there was a seal made, they have it or can get it. :thumbs:  Check with your local Hydraulic shops on the seals. I doubt that they are odd ball at all, except to us. :(

 

I'm sure my local shop can do the same thing once they tear into it, if I decide to go that route.  It is run by a Mennonite who is very, very, very sharp on this kind of thing.  I didn't really lay too much weight on the quick inspection opinion, since lacking a tag a cylinder is just a cylinder.  I have not let anyone take it apart too far until I decide a replacement unit. 

 

Second problem is that the fittings are welded to the cylinder.  They used cast iron pipe fittings, and vibration has not agreed with one to the point where the weld is cracking.   I doubt me if those welds are original, they seem to be too sloppy to be factory, but I might be wrong. 

 

The problem is that it can be done, but I don't want to put ~$200 into it by the time the boys source each seal and o ring and account for their time and energy, while a good quality new cylinder that will do what I and OldBuzzard want will be just a couple bills more. 

 

Thanks for everyone's thoughts, its good to hear them so keep them coming! 

Ben W.


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#24 OldBuzzard ONLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2013 - 09:34 PM

One thing that I've noticed is that the mast has three holes for the tilt cylinder to attach to.

 

When it was still at the dealer, it was attached to the middle one, and that's where it is in all of the pics.

 

I'm thinking that moving it to the top hole should give a bit more back tilt, but the question is just how much, and would it be enough?

 

In these two pictures you can see the difference in full forward, and full rearward tilt.

 

100_4717.JPG 100_4716.JPG
 
I find it hard to believe that it was like that in 1971.  Something between then and now has to have been changed.
 
I finally found the pics that I have of what I'm almost positive is the same basic lift.  It's on a Sears tractor, and the pump is driven by an electric motor instead of the PTO.
 
Not real good pics but they are all I've ever been able to find.
 
SEARS_FL.jpg Sears_Forklift_2.jpg

 

 
 

 

 

 


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#25 superaben OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2013 - 10:13 PM

I have noticed those three holes, they are for the mast pivot pin.  However, I am curious if moving between the holes messes with load capacity ratings?   It almost has to, since it is changing the pivot point in relation to the cylinder.  I'm sure the owner's manual would have been able to explain that.  :(

 

There are also two holes for the cylinder to go in on the mast side.

 

Those combinations have to be there for a reason.  I wonder...???

 

My guess is there has to be a reason that the dealer went so far out of his way to install that plyboard in the forks, what did he know that I don't?  My uneducated guess has to be load ratings.  That's the only thing I can think of.  Because there is no way someone would buy a forklift that won't hold a thing on the forks.

 

I have half a mind to hook everything back up and experiment a bit. 

 

I'm not moving on the new cylinder until I figure out what might be happening here.  If I can salvage what's there and still get you the tilt, that would be the best way. 

 

 

I finally found the pics that I have of what I'm almost positive is the same basic lift.  It's on a Sears tractor, and the pump is driven by an electric motor instead of the PTO.
 
Not real good pics but they are all I've ever been able to find.

 

That is the same lift.  Do you know anyone who has one?? 

 

Ben W.


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#26 OldBuzzard ONLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2013 - 10:24 PM

I have noticed those three holes, they are for the mast pivot pin.  However, I am curious if moving between the holes messes with load capacity ratings?   It almost has to, since it is changing the pivot point in relation to the cylinder.  I'm sure the owner's manual would have been able to explain that.  :(

 

There are also two holes for the cylinder to go in on the mast side.

 

Those are the hole(s) that I as thinking about.  I don't have any real good pics of that area, but I reviewed the video that I took of it when it was still at the dealership, and I could see that the tilt cylinder was NOT in the top hole

 

 

Those combinations have to be there for a reason.  I wonder...???

 

My guess is there has to be a reason that the dealer went so far out of his way to install that plyboard in the forks, what did he know that I don't?  My uneducated guess has to be load ratings.  That's the only thing I can think of.  Because there is no way someone would buy a forklift that won't hold a thing on the forks.

 

Maybe I'll have to go talk to the original owners and see what I can find out. They are just a few miles from me and besides they have some "Cajun Peanuts" that I haven't had for white awhile :D :D :D

 

I have half a mind to hook everything back up and experiment a bit. 

 

I'm not moving on the new cylinder until I figure out what might be happening here.  If I can salvage what's there and still get you the tilt, that would be the best way. 

 

 

That is the same lift.  Do you know anyone who has one?? 

 

I wish I did know of someone that has one, but alas, I do not.

 

Ben W.


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#27 shorty ONLINE  

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Posted December 06, 2013 - 06:00 AM

Looking at the pictures, It sure looks like the forks are bent down a bit. Not quite square at the 90. We get this with the forklifts we use in construction. Different load pressures can bend the fork before upsetting the machine.

 

 

I have shimmed out forks like that too, to get them more level.


Edited by shorty, December 06, 2013 - 08:53 AM.

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#28 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted December 06, 2013 - 06:30 AM

I'm with shorty, the forks do look to have more than 90 degrees at the bend. That would make it seem to not tilt back far enough.


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#29 IamSherwood OFFLINE  

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Posted December 06, 2013 - 06:47 AM

I was just looking at some forklift pictures, and came across this, and

wanted to share.

 

forklift.jpg

 

I must have missed that part of "How to", when I took my

forklift training. :rolling:  :rolling:


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#30 OldBuzzard ONLINE  

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Posted December 06, 2013 - 07:09 AM

Looks like good ole Klause would fit in just right with those guys  :bigrofl: 


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