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Tips For Stock Garden Tractors At The Pulls


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#16 Clippnalawn OFFLINE  

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Posted November 17, 2013 - 11:19 PM

My kids and I only have one season under our belt, and the club my kids pull with runs mostly stock tractors. The first thing I noticed that made the biggest difference was having an adjustable hitch, that way you can set it as high as the rules allow....then adjusting weight forward and back to optimize traction.

Up here in the northwest there are actually a lot of guys running turf tires and placing really well, the budget ag tires seem to have a lot of angle on the bars which kind of just roll the dirt out from the tire and dig in. The turf tires with softer side walls let the tire "air down" and "wrinkle" more...getting more tire/traction on the track at a time.
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#17 lesmeister ONLINE  

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Posted November 17, 2013 - 11:34 PM

Mike is correct about the shaft drives being most efficient. The best way to get started is seat time and don't be afraid to try something. Also keep a record of what works at different tracks, Although they may differ from time to time you will have a good starting point. One other thing that is very important is learning how to read the dirt. Just a couple of things that you can do to get ahead of the competition
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#18 Dieselcubmike OFFLINE  

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Posted November 17, 2013 - 11:49 PM

Also what helps is how the sled moves over the dirt. Check to see if there's any dips or hills on a certain side of the track. You also want the pan of the sled to slide as efficiently as possible as well.


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#19 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

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Posted November 17, 2013 - 11:51 PM

Not To start any flame wars but Doug wanted info about when you are pulling totally stock GT's the belt driven WH or SIM-A/C  with pull just as good as a shaft driven Cub if they are all totally stock. It's all about weight transfer on the tractor, hitch height, tire s hooking to the track and picking the best part of the track to pull down. If the front end doesn't get lite or stay up in the air just a little at the end of the pull. you have to much weight up front. If you spin out or stall and the front end never got lite, you have too much up front and need to move it back.

 

Just my 2 cents worth..


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#20 OldBuzzard ONLINE  

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Posted November 18, 2013 - 12:23 AM

I found out on Sat. just how important hitch height is.

 

It was at the WPAGT Plow Day, and they had a 'fun pull' using a dead weight sled.

 

Very basic rules, and it was pretty well 'run what you brung'.

 

I had taken the Bolens HDT there to plow with, and that's what I used.

 

Totally stock, but with tires loaded up and wheel weights, basically for plowing

 

On the third to last pull with something like 2,050 lbs. on the sled, I was really struggling, and wasn't sure I was going to do the short distance that was required.

 

When that was over, a gentleman from their club said that he was watching, and that I had 'too much weight' on the front tires during the pull, and I should raise the hitch.

 

Since I was using my 3-pt that was easy to do so I asked him to take a look at it and give me an idea of where it should be.

 

He told me to start raising the 3-pt, and after about 3-4" he said stop and try that.

 

On the next pull at 2150, that Bolens just walked away like the sled was lighter rather than heavier.  I also noticed that the front wheels were just barely skimming  the ground and I had just enough weight on then to get a bit of steering.

 

On the last pull at 2,250 lbs. it did the same.  We quit at that point as they had run out of weights to put on the sled.

 

From the way it handled 2,250, I'm sure it would have handled more as well. 

 

So yeah, hitch height is VERY important.


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#21 Dieselcubmike OFFLINE  

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Posted November 18, 2013 - 01:24 AM

Its a balancing act it what it pretty much comes down to it. Everybody has their own personal preference as far as GT brand which is fine as anybody has one or like us, has several laying around. You can have as much work done as you want but, if you cant put it to the ground along with a good weight setup your not going anywhere. Now I have nothing against the belt drives seeing that's how I started out but everybody has their days. Some days the cubs win, some days the sears win, some days the horses and others win. It all comes down to weight, the certain spot on the track, and air pressure. But for us who run modifieds its a bit harder to control when you have something capable of producing around 90ft lbs of torque and a 8000lbs sled then that's when things get tricky and believe me it can get crazy at times. So Brian, I know your not trying to start a flame war and by all means I welcome everyone's opinion with these as im entertained to how everyone got started and see what their experiences were like, what rigs they used and what not. And buzzard, I know what you mean about hitch height. However with our rules we have to run a 12inch hitch unless your running in the prostock and hot stock classes. So for a general idea id start with 12 and go from there.  And I am sorry if I did offend any of the belt pullers out there was just stating my own personal opinion. 


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#22 OldBuzzard ONLINE  

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Posted November 18, 2013 - 01:38 AM

This was a just a "fun pull' with no money involved, and more for seeing just how much your particular tractor could pull than anything else.

 

Pretty much anything that could hook to the sled was OK, and a good time was had by all.

 

There was every thing entered from an 8 Hp Cub Cadet to a behemoth modified beast :D :D :D


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#23 Dieselcubmike OFFLINE  

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Posted November 18, 2013 - 01:55 AM

Ive never pulled dead weight before so it would be a new world for me. Unfortunately I have a 2500$ rear end that I really don't want to blow out Lol :rolling: its built for speed not a short distance. But its fun and I enjoy it especially when I step on the pedal and the turbo whistles and the black smoke roars :D  


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#24 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted November 18, 2013 - 04:24 AM

Stock, dead or transfer sleds, a " good" hydro will pull just fine. We did it all year long and stayed inside the top 7 , mostly in the top 3, so it can easily be done .
Balance and traction are absolutely critical! We have a speed limit to contend with because the hydros would destroy the gear drives and won all the time. But you need to have a good one that has hi and low so you can just floor it and drive!
You also need to be consistant at it, this way your spotters can have better imput on ways to improve.
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#25 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted November 18, 2013 - 05:59 AM

When I used to pull the MH81, I learned early on to have your governor working properly and use it. As someone earlier alluded to, Full throttle sounds great, but isn't very impressive if you don't move.

The last pull I did on Sat, if I had idled down, I might have moved the sled, but I was afraid of stalling and my head was somewhere else, who cares if it stalls, it was for fun? :D

Mike I'd agree on the chains being a concern if you are running any kind of speed, but this was a slow "run what ya brung" pull and they said no problem. The only concerns for the pull were use common sense (they were watching), follow the rules (which they had gone over diligently) and if you didnt have wheelie bars, the fronts were not allow to lift at any time (instant disqualify).

Doug, I think there are a few things I would try if I were you.
First, add weight. Fill tires, wheel weights, etc... Heck put rocks in your pockets too.... A lot of clubs frown on filled tires and they have good reasons. (What to do with the track afterwards?, is it toxic?, who wants to smell 10 year old rancid beat juice?) but some are OK with it.

Second, go with more ground contact. A larger diameter tire and wider will give more ground contact. However, I think width would be something you would want to stay skinny with on your tractor so you could continue to plow with it and not change tires.... So, maybe a 25" tire? Oh, and drop the air a few lbs. look at the tires on competitive pullers. They all look soft for a reason.

Third, and this may be hardest, variable torque. (I may be using wrong terminology here)
A tractor that spins in a particular situation, if lugged down will often walk out of there... This can be achieved usually by going in a higher gear and/or idling down. With the ET, IDK how to do that unless it is higher gear or maybe with the variator. After hookup, take it out of gear, spool the engine and adjust to 4 or 5, then as light as you can be with the peddle on takeoff.
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#26 baerpath OFFLINE  

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Posted November 18, 2013 - 07:41 AM

On the filled tires that's okay for slow pulling but if your turning the tires with decent speed it's worthless. Half of the weight will be on top of the tire due to centrifugal force, not helping at all.    We only weight the tractor not the wheels, for us we use belly bar and front weight no rear weights. The sled will hold the rear down 

 On the hydro's again slow light weight okay, heavy fast not a chance. Unless you do like some in our club do V8 Chevy 350's in front of the hydro's make them go farther.

 

  Basically you have to try different things to make your puller hook up right. The big ones in my mind are, Tires(pressure and type), weight (in the right places and weight to the max), a puller that reads the track and feels their puller, don't be afraid to drop your hitch height when needed.  I've gone in under powered and still placed and sometimes won by knowing my puller.

  Watch the older pullers who've pulled on the sled for years you can learn a lot doing just that


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#27 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted November 18, 2013 - 10:29 AM

As others said, first and foremost is to get the circuit rules ans study them, this may limit what you can alter on a stocker.

 

I have never pulled, but a good friend of mine has been pulling since he was very young. His uncle actually built their transfer sled and runs the local circuit up our way.

He started out with all Sears and did well. Then he upped the horsepower and began breaking rearends and moved on to Cubs. Now most of his are all modified, his Sears are just toys. From what I've seen him do, even using a stock Cub, it's all about balance and properly placed weights. tires, and a good tuned engine.

Member Hugh here does a lot of dead weight pulls, he pulled almost 4800#'s with a Sears SS/18 in spring before he snapped rearend ring gear, I think he almost had more wieght on tractor than the sled :D


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#28 DH1 ONLINE  

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Posted November 18, 2013 - 07:30 PM

Well thanks to all that replied, this is what I was hoping for lots of info from different people on what to do to pull more weight with whatever tractor you got.

Thanks

 

 


Doug, I think there are a few things I would try if I were you.
First, add weight. Fill tires, wheel weights, etc... Heck put rocks in your pockets too.... A lot of clubs frown on filled tires and they have good reasons. (What to do with the track afterwards?, is it toxic?, who wants to smell 10 year old rancid beat juice?) but some are OK with it.

Second, go with more ground contact. A larger diameter tire and wider will give more ground contact. However, I think width would be something you would want to stay skinny with on your tractor so you could continue to plow with it and not change tires.... So, maybe a 25" tire? Oh, and drop the air a few lbs. look at the tires on competitive pullers. They all look soft for a reason.

Third, and this may be hardest, variable torque. (I may be using wrong terminology here)
A tractor that spins in a particular situation, if lugged down will often walk out of there... This can be achieved usually by going in a higher gear and/or idling down. With the ET, IDK how to do that unless it is higher gear or maybe with the variator. After hookup, take it out of gear, spool the engine and adjust to 4 or 5, then as light as you can be with the peddle on takeoff.

 

My tractor was a Massey MF10 that is converted to battery electric drive, the motor drives the trany through a single B series belt that has a tensioner pulley with 2 springs on it, no clutch.

Motor is controlled by a controller and foot throttle so speed or power can be varied. Motor makes max toque at 0 RPM and reduces as RPM increases.

Tractor has 23 - 8.50 x 12" Carlisle Power Trac tires,  1 set of 40lb and 1 set of 25lb weights for a total of 65lbs each rear wheel, tires unloaded.

They hooked to the sleeve hitch which was about 6" or 7" off the ground.

I only pulled 730lbs, at 930lbs it pulled the sled 3/4 way down and then stopped moving, spinning it's wheels.

From the info in this thread all I had to do was raise the sleeve hitch with lift handle and it would of done the 930lbs pull, maybe more.

:wallbanging: :wallbanging: :wallbanging:  if I'd only known.

Tractor was set up for the plowing and I just wanted to try the pulls to see what it could do.


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#29 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

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Posted November 18, 2013 - 09:13 PM

Well thanks to all that replied, this is what I was hoping for lots of info from different people on what to do to pull more weight with whatever tractor you got.

Thanks

 

 

 

My tractor was a Massey MF10 that is converted to battery electric drive, the motor drives the trany through a single B series belt that has a tensioner pulley with 2 springs on it, no clutch.

Motor is controlled by a controller and foot throttle so speed or power can be varied. Motor makes max toque at 0 RPM and reduces as RPM increases.

Tractor has 23 - 8.50 x 12" Carlisle Power Trac tires,  1 set of 40lb and 1 set of 25lb weights for a total of 65lbs each rear wheel, tires unloaded.

They hooked to the sleeve hitch which was about 6" or 7" off the ground.

I only pulled 730lbs, at 930lbs it pulled the sled 3/4 way down and then stopped moving, spinning it's wheels.

From the info in this thread all I had to do was raise the sleeve hitch with lift handle and it would of done the 930lbs pull, maybe more.

:wallbanging: :wallbanging: :wallbanging:  if I'd only known.

Tractor was set up for the plowing and I just wanted to try the pulls to see what it could do.

 

Doug, Did the front end ever get lite as in the tires just touching the ground? Rotating mass on the rims eats HP when pulling. If you can get the weight in front of and just behind the rear axle so all the tractors weight  is on the back axle when pulling the hardest is the balancing act you are looking for. I hope that makes sense to you.


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#30 DH1 ONLINE  

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Posted November 18, 2013 - 09:16 PM

Doug, Did the front end ever get lite as in the tires just touching the ground? Rotating mass on the rims eats HP when pulling. If you can get the weight in front of and just behind the rear axle so all the tractors weight  is on the back axle when pulling the hardest is the balancing act you are looking for. I hope that makes sense to you.

 

Front end never felt light at all and yes it makes sense.


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