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Tecumseh Starter Failure, Defective Or


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#1 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted November 10, 2013 - 07:00 PM

Today, after all the family stuff, we decided to get the ST16 up near the garage to do a few changes for next weekend.
Rrrr,rrrr,rrrr,rrrr,rrrr,rrrr,rrrr,rrrr

Rrrr, Rrrr, Rrrrrrr, Rrrr........ Sniff, sniff. Smoke, That's not good.

Ever since I got this tractor, I thought it started slower than it should.
We took the starter off and found one of the springs had let go on the brushes. Thought that was the problem. Made a new spring and jb welded the brush holders back in (loose)
image.jpg

Waited for it to all cure up OK and then reassembled and put it back on the tractor.

Rrrr, Rrrr, Rrrrrrr, Rrrr........ Sniff, sniff. Smoke, crap!

Back off, took apart again only further this time. Found the real problem.
This is what a armature should look like
image.jpg
And this is what the other side looks like
image.jpg
Somehow, it rubbed against the side until it shorted out and catastrophically came apart.

Stole a starter off another engine and installed it on the OH16
By dark, we had it running. It does turn over faster and starts easier.
I wonder how long this has been like this. There are signs that it has been a worsening, but existing problem.

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#2 KennyP OFFLINE  

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Posted November 10, 2013 - 07:09 PM

Wow! That was nasty! Glad you had a spare!


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#3 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted November 10, 2013 - 07:19 PM

Wow! That was nasty! Glad you had a spare!

Well, not exactly a spare... More like one tractor down now.
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#4 wvbuzzmaster OFFLINE  

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Posted November 10, 2013 - 07:33 PM

Sounds like the Gilson. And I replaced that starter once and same issue. The gilson is a 16 ho single cyl briggs from 1974, pre compression release. Your st16 is a 16 hp engine, probably 1970s knowing you. This is the era everyone switcheD from starter generators to starter motors. The root cause.... Too much engine, not enough starter. No one seemed to pick up on this right quick, then guess what, all these engines started having compression releases designed into them. Now tell me, do you have a compression release?
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#5 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted November 10, 2013 - 07:33 PM

Is the bushing worn on the drive end?  Looks like the bushing let that end hit the field stack.  I've seen bushings/bearings fail, but still, I've never seen an armature stack do that!


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#6 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted November 10, 2013 - 07:45 PM

Sounds like the Gilson. And I replaced that starter once and same issue. The gilson is a 16 ho single cyl briggs from 1974, pre compression release. Your st16 is a 16 hp engine, probably 1970s knowing you. This is the era everyone switcheD from starter generators to starter motors. The root cause.... Too much engine, not enough starter. No one seemed to pick up on this right quick, then guess what, all these engines started having compression releases designed into them. Now tell me, do you have a compression release?


I think no, but it does have spark advance.
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#7 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted November 10, 2013 - 07:46 PM

Is the bushing worn on the drive end?  Looks like the bushing let that end hit the field stack.  I've seen bushings/bearings fail, but still, I've never seen an armature stack do that!


There is almost no wear, I had the same thought and was surprised by its looking like new.

This isn't the OEM starter, I'm wondering if they got a bad one and it's been failing ever since.
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#8 wvbuzzmaster OFFLINE  

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Posted November 10, 2013 - 07:50 PM

I think no, but it does have spark advance.


Yup, same deal, too much engine, not enough starter. This was a factory problem with them all. Be prepared to replace starters every few years.
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#9 KC9KAS OFFLINE  

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Posted November 10, 2013 - 08:09 PM

A good friend of mine always said "electric motors run on smoke, and when the smoke comes out, they are shot"!


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#10 dodge trucker ONLINE  

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Posted November 10, 2013 - 08:15 PM

on the newer stuff I learned my lesson on the aftermarket Briggs starters, "just say "NO"   especially when they aint any cheaper than buying a new OEM one


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#11 DH1 ONLINE  

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Posted November 10, 2013 - 08:29 PM

Maybe it got dropped at some point in time.

The starter motor they use on your Techumseh 16hp is physically bigger than the one that was on my 80hp Suzuki Sidekick


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#12 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted November 11, 2013 - 06:42 AM

Maybe it got dropped at some point in time.

The starter motor they use on your Techumseh 16hp is physically bigger than the one that was on my 80hp Suzuki Sidekick

 

Doug, That 3 cylinder Suzuki engine probably had a smaller displacement /cylinder than the big old flat head single 16hp. Considering how big these engines are the HP/litre displacement is very low compared to modern car engines. 


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#13 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted November 11, 2013 - 06:54 AM

Allan do you think the motor shaft is bent causing it to rub on the one side ?  Maybe if the engine back-fired when starting would the starter drive release it or lock/jam up  ?  


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#14 IamSherwood OFFLINE  

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Posted November 11, 2013 - 07:03 AM

Or could an alignment issue have caused it to be torqued over to one side?


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#15 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted November 11, 2013 - 07:13 AM

I got to staring at this last nite, the case isn't "square".
Where the single mounting tab is, the case is ever so slightly less concave. The electromagnet where the armature contact was is one of those corners. I am thinking that the PO changed this as it looks pretty new... They kept getting "water in the gas and couldn't get it started".
http://gardentractor...eo/#entry236025

I am now thinking they cranked the first starter to death and then bought this one and it was weak, faulty, bent and kept having starting issues.

This may be the reason I was able to buy the machine?




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