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The impact of the internet and our garden tractors hobby.


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#31 wvbuzzmaster OFFLINE  

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Posted May 23, 2011 - 10:37 PM

I have to say this, I got started in the hobby from a local purchase of a David Bradley walk behind, but without the internet I never would have found the correct engine for it to do a proper restoration. Then what got me in the hobby heavy was ebay. Without the internet I wouldn't have nealry the collection cause although I did buy some local, it was only because I didn't know about them until I found pictures and information on the internet! I have made great friends online through forums. I couldn't make such great friends with the same interests locally because most in the hobby around here are over twice my age and are in it for the memories. Here we are in it to create memories, much different crowd. I just like not being told how the tractor I have had in my collection for over a year works when I already know all about it. I want to shoot the bull and say what I did to get it. :D

#32 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted May 24, 2011 - 06:05 AM

I wouldn't have the success of getting my tractors fixed up if not for the internet and forums such as this one. Having the manuals and experience of others has been a huge help in getting the GT's in working condition. The plus of bouncing ideas off others has made it so much easier to do. Some times, just reading of the things some people go through to get that 'special' tractor is fun and sometimes quite amusing. Online friendships is another plus. Even the younger generations are teaching me things and that is so nice to have.

#33 josh deaven OFFLINE  

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Posted May 24, 2011 - 11:27 AM

Hey Hrdriv Why is a Lagc a fault that the hobby is growing. This my opinion is that the big tractor is market flat dew to the fact that fuel prices,hauling,storing. We are on the up sloop of the gt hobby. Lagc does a good job of informing the gt hobby. As far most of the collectors 1,2,3 generation off the farm.It is harder to store big tractors,but a guy can have shed or garage and have a good # of gt.And you can haul them in the back truck or on small trailer. Face the facts the hobby is growing and more people are get envoled. Thanks Josh

#34 hydriv OFFLINE  

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Posted May 24, 2011 - 12:18 PM

Hey Hrdriv Why is a Lagc a fault that the hobby is growing. This my opinion is that the big tractor is market flat dew to the fact that fuel prices,hauling,storing. We are on the up sloop of the gt hobby. Lagc does a good job of informing the gt hobby. As far most of the collectors 1,2,3 generation off the farm.It is harder to store big tractors,but a guy can have shed or garage and have a good # of gt.And you can haul them in the back truck or on small trailer. Face the facts the hobby is growing and more people are get envoled. Thanks Josh



Josh,
Let's start with what I actually wrote.

" Parts prices have gone up noticeably over the past five years but I don't hold the internet at fault any more than I hold the magazines such as LAGC at fault. The truth is simple. The hobby is growing. More people are getting into it because right now it's still very affordable."

If you read my words carefully, I said that the growth in the hobby is the key factor that is driving up the price of parts, NOT the internet or LAGC. I did not knock LAGC.

It's now become too many people chasing too few tractors and the whores who purchase perfectly good tractors for the express purpose of parting them out at a profit are not helping the situation either. The collector/restorer now finds himself in competition for these easily restored, complete tractors along with the really rough tractors that were used as parts tractors at one time by the collector/restorer.

What will eventually happen is that the cost of garden tractor collecting will soar to the point where only the people with large disposable incomes will be able to afford to get into the hobby and then you will also see a burgeoning aftermarket parts industry emerge that will allow people to actually build a tractor clone. Just look at the automobile collector industry. You can buy just about any Model T, Model A, 32 and 34 Ford body. Fiberglass Willy's bodies have been available since the 60's. In the tractor world, there is no problem obtaining reproduction 8N Ford parts. If the demand is there, then someone will spring for the cost of making up the dies to stamp out reproduction parts.

The true hobbyist gets into the hobby for a number of reasons but making money is not on that list of reasons. When enough hobbyists get involved in a particular hobby to the point where the hobby gets noticed, that's when the whores flock to the scene like vultures to a dead antelope on the African plain. They don't give a rat's ass about preserving old iron or history. To them, it's just a way to turn a buck.

#35 nra1ifer OFFLINE  

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Posted May 24, 2011 - 12:29 PM

Without the internet, I wouldn't have any of the 4 GT's I have, and none of the implements I have. Three GT's were found via CL, and the 4th was found on Sears' outlet site. Both sleeve hitches I have were found on CL, one of two plough's was found on CL, the other was ordered via HD's web site. My 48" blade was found on CL.

I agree with the comments about "whores" who by tractors just to sell the parts. Whether you are in it for the hobby, for collecting, for restoring, or simply to use them in a garden like I do, the parts prices are going up.

On one hand, the growing interest in GT's is good, but some of the side-effects hurt.

#36 josh deaven OFFLINE  

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Posted May 24, 2011 - 01:15 PM

Sorry my bad. I do not agree with good tractor being parted,but if is tractor that is missing pieces.Then it should either be parted or kept until the missing parts can be found.But some tractor have to be parted.thanks Josh
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#37 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted May 24, 2011 - 03:52 PM

I'm sorry, but I feel what you own is yours to do as you please & nobody should have a say in it but you. It's the same thing as Uncle Sam coming & telling you what you can & can't do with your stuff. Not a single person here would stand for Big Brother dictating what you do with your tractors, so why should we as individuals act any differently? Yes, I sometimes see tractors parted that I would love to have whole to use, but I still stand fast with "what is yours is yours", and I'll never change that stand. And that's coming from someone that has never ever parted a tractor that could be restored/used within reasonable cost/time.
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#38 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted May 24, 2011 - 03:55 PM

LAGC is mainly subscribed to by people already permanently afflicted with the "GT Bug", so I can't see any way that it drives up tractor or tractor part prices. We "tractor nuts" give whatever we can afford to get our rides going/restored.

#39 wvbuzzmaster OFFLINE  

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Posted May 24, 2011 - 04:21 PM

The ONLY way I see that the internet drives up prices is locally. People selling 30 year old tractors/implements they don't want to people like us is easy business, until they find the internet, namely auction sites. I know of people (and I am just as guilty) that say, "I saw a tiller just like this one sell on an auction site for over X amount of dollars 3 months ago, so that is what it's worth." Yes, mabey in an auction setting right before tilling season it is worth that, but in reality it is now worth a lower dollar amount, especially since that tiller is now out of season.

#40 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted May 24, 2011 - 05:23 PM

Multiple good responses here. A lot of the upwards cost of anything is the cost of fuel. That raises freight cost, which in turn raises consumer cost. I was looking at a pair of 18X6.50X8 tires on epay that were only about $30, But shipping was $46 dollars. I can go local and get them cheaper and get new instead of used.

#41 tex tractor jack OFFLINE  

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Posted May 24, 2011 - 07:22 PM

Well, I bought my 1257 Wheel Horse new in the 1960s, to mow, plow snow, clean the feeding floor and later to tractor pull in two clubs in central Indiana. I bought a couple of junkers to make pullers out of in the late 60s. I bought a 318 John Deere of a Allis dealer in Alabama, in the late 80s, because it had power steering and hyd. lift. I picked up 16hp. Ariens and a 1257 Bolens in the 2001 from my brother. Then I found the internet and have gone hogwild. But I think that it has been great to find parts and tractors. A lot of tractors would not be being saved and restored if it was not for parts being sold. So whether they were off of junkers or good tractors, they have to be available. I think any basket case can be saved and want to save them all, but you still need parts.

I believe LAGT, this site and others are a great asset to the life of GTs, collectors, users, and the rest of us NUTS. "Oh" I forgot to mention, I think alot of nice, informative people are out here talking with each other and getting to state thier opinons.

THE INTERNET IS GREAT FOR ALL OF US, EVEN OLD COGGERS LIKE ME.

#42 hydriv OFFLINE  

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Posted May 25, 2011 - 09:37 AM

I'm sorry, but I feel what you own is yours to do as you please & nobody should have a say in it but you. It's the same thing as Uncle Sam coming & telling you what you can & can't do with your stuff. Not a single person here would stand for Big Brother dictating what you do with your tractors, so why should we as individuals act any differently? Yes, I sometimes see tractors parted that I would love to have whole to use, but I still stand fast with "what is yours is yours", and I'll never change that stand. And that's coming from someone that has never ever parted a tractor that could be restored/used within reasonable cost/time.



So....let's see if I have this straight or not, Dan.

Your philosophy is that OWNERSHIP gives you absolute right to do with any item as you deem fit and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks?


Based on that, you would have no problem if Stonehenge, the Roman Coliseum, the Leaning Tower of Pisa, all of the pyramids in Egypt and Mexico were demolished by way of controlled explosives. It would be OK to fill in the Grand Canyon, divert 100 percent of the water flowing over Niagara Falls to hydro electric pen-stocks and razing all of the redwoods in California so people could build decks in their backyard. Everything I listed above are pieces of history.

Yes... those are extreme examples but the fact remains that the general public believes that ownership does not give absolute right to do with property as one pleases. There have been numerous instances where governments have intervened due to public outcry and prevented irreversible tragedies. Do I believe that a garden tractor is on the same level as those examples? Hell no. I'm simply pointing out how your argument fails to meet the absolute test. So, let me bring this back down to the level of garden tractor collecting and speak of tractors that I have some knowledge about. In 1976, a Case dealer in Racine, Wisconsin took six (possibly 10) brand new 446 models and had them painted white with blue and red stars and stripes for the Bi-Centennial parade. Only THREE of the originals are known to exist today. In 1966, Case produced 53 garden tractors with a pickup box on the back and a bench seat and called them a T-90. I think that perhaps a dozen or so still exist today. Another example is the ultra-rare Torq 224 model of 1974. No one knows how many of these were built but there are only THREE known examples surviving today.

And then we have the Demonstrator models produced by Case from 1971 to 1976. Again, no one knows how many were made of each model. Some models are more common than others. As it happens, I own a Black Knight and a Golden Demo along with a Torq 224. Therefore, ownership gives me the absolute right to take a D8 CAT dozer and drive over top of all of them and then deliver them to the scrap yard to be melted down. If I did that, I know that there are Case collectors out there who would either vomit or burst into tears if I put a video of this desecration on YouTube. The hate-mail would be huge and many would proclaim that ownership did not give me the right to destroy those pieces of history.

You seem to have a passion for Bush Hog tractors. Perhaps you just like what they can do for you around the farm and when you've run them into the ground, then you consider them to be junk. You tell me because I don't know you well enough to make such a conclusion. This is not about Big Brotherism. I am not advocating some sort of law that would interfere with property rights. But as a collector/restorer I certainly retain the right to express my disgust for those who destroy history in exchange for the fast buck. That's what the lumber industry would have done to the magnificent 300 year old Redwoods that are still standing in California because people with vision saw value in them that went far beyond the current price of a board/foot of lumber.

I cannot believe that there is not at least ONE tractor that you have longed to own but that has escaped you. And if I am right, then I also cannot believe that you would not be pissed off for weeks on end if someone took a cutting torch to a pristine example that tractor.

#43 hydriv OFFLINE  

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Posted May 25, 2011 - 09:56 AM

Sorry my bad. I do not agree with good tractor being parted,but if is tractor that is missing pieces.Then it should either be parted or kept until the missing parts can be found.But some tractor have to be parted.thanks Josh



I do not disagree with the premise that some tractors must be parted out in order to restore another tractor. Many times, that's the only way a restoration can be completed because new parts for an old tractor have been long discontinued or the manufacturer went out of business in one fashion or another many years ago. My complaint is with those on e-bay that have turned to parting out any tractor they can lay their hands on because of the almighty fast buck. Many of them don't know their ass from their elbow about the tractors they are parting. They have no clue whether it is a highly sought after model or an ultra-rare model or as common a dirt. All they do is buy it, bring it home, rip it to pieces and then flog the parts on e-Bay for whatever they bring. Those are the whores I speak of. Those are the people who should not be a part of the hobby.

Right now, I have a 150 Case that is missing its fuel tank. To some people, they would look at this tractor and say it should be parted out. All four tires are dry rotted and even tubes won't save them and it's rather rusty in some areas. But the surface rust can be taken care of with high-fill primers. The tin is all there and it is straight. There is nothing major wrong with this tractor that cannot be righted with some effort. Eventually, I will come across another tractor that is truly not worth saving that will yield the few parts needed to make this 150 whole and the restoration will take place. I have other machines to put my attention to, long before I get to this one.

#44 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted May 25, 2011 - 10:22 AM

So....let's see if I have this straight or not, Dan.

Your philosophy is that OWNERSHIP gives you absolute right to do with any item as you deem fit and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks?



Yep, that's what I believe!


As it happens, I own a Black Knight and a Golden Demo along with a Torq 224. Therefore, ownership gives me the absolute right to take a D8 CAT dozer and drive over top of all of them and then deliver them to the scrap yard to be melted down. If I did that, I know that there are Case collectors out there who would either vomit or burst into tears if I put a video of this desecration on YouTube. The hate-mail would be huge and many would proclaim that ownership did not give me the right to destroy those pieces of history.


Knock yourself out! They are yours to do as you please!

You seem to have a passion for Bush Hog tractors. Perhaps you just like what they can do for you around the farm and when you've run them into the ground, then you consider them to be junk. You tell me because I don't know you well enough to make such a conclusion.



Of course not, and I choose to take care of mine for history's sake. But that is MY decision.

I cannot believe that there is not at least ONE tractor that you have longed to own but that has escaped you. And if I am right, then I also cannot believe that you would not be pissed off for weeks on end if someone took a cutting torch to a pristine example that tractor.


Of course there are, and I know many are parted & melted, but that's life. We can't get everything we want, nor have everything our way.
This can be debated till hell freezes over, but the fact will remain that what is yours IS yours, and what is mine IS mine. Sure I hate to see some tractors scrapped out. Sure I'd love to save them all. You, myself, or anyone else can get mad, send that hate mail, & put down others for what they do with their possessions, but it will not change a thing. People do as they want & will continue to do so. If we let what everyone else does get us worked into a frenzy, our lives will suck. I choose to enjoy the tractors I save & share that fun with others for as long as I walk this earth.
As for further debate............ :deadhorse:
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#45 ad356 OFFLINE  

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Posted May 30, 2011 - 07:27 AM

without the internet, finding the parts would be much more difficult. i found items for my tractors that i wouldnt be able to get if it wasnt for the internet. i had a bolens ride-a-matic back before the internet gained popularity. most of the parts, even the really worn out stuff i had to put up with or take to a machine shop. i think the internet makes the parts easier to get. it also makes project tractors and attachments much easier to locate.

i know that some tractors are being parted out that shouldnt be, thats the bad. the good is that the internet allows NOS to be more available. i bought a NOS 48" deck pan for my narrow frame cub cadet off the internet. i will be mowing for many years now.

Edited by ad356, May 30, 2011 - 07:36 AM.





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